To Tell the Truth
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Last night, S1 asked me an interesting question. The question was, “Dad, I was wondering why you have us for Christmas 3-years in a row. Not that I mind! I was just wondering, but then Mom told me.” (I corrected him, it is actually 2-years in a row.)
This wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been faced with carefully finding a way to “help” the children learn about the truth of a particular matter. S1 is wiser to reality than I think any of us give him credit for. Sometimes, I can even tell from slight differences in his tone… in his voice inflection… that indicates to me that there is some doubt in his own mind about what he believes to be the truth. Actually, I should probably say about what he almost believes to be the truth.
This time, however, the subject matter was a big deal. It was regarding a topic that (I hope) remains the largest bone of contention since the actual divorce itself. The subject was the events that occured at Christmas 2006, a series I detailed previously (just click the link if you haven’t already read it).
What exactly did mom tell S1? Well, it would appear that the PEW told S1 the same song-and-dance that she tried to tell the Judge during our eventual contempt-of-court hearing. He told me words to the following effect:
Well, yeah, I remember because she told me how she was really sick that year. She had a fever and was throwing up and couldn’t bring us out to meet you so she just kept us home with her and that last year was a make-up year.
Is that right? Here I am staring in the face of a dilemma. While there is some doubt in his voice, something keeps nagging at me. If I don’t address it, he will grow up with these tidbits of mom’s “revisionist history.” That would make some of his history, no matter how horrible, a complete lie. Further, the complete lie will most assuredly leave me in the spot of bad-guy as it always does with her.
This is a story I’ve seen told on a number of blogs I read. Many of you readers are authors of those blogs and I can almost see you nodding your head and rolling your eyes in agreement with that “been there, done that” look on your face. I’ve also read about the various ways many have chosen to handle it. Delicately, but with eyes focused on the truth. I would embark on what I have previously described as “walking the children down the path of reality.” I don’t just tell them my side of the story. I don’t have anger or contempt in my voice. I don’t call mom a liar or otherwise disparage her though, that probably really doesn’t matter. It’s still painful to me that they have to come to their own conclusions and the ugly reality that, again, their mother has lied to them. It’s what amounts to a question-and-answer session and here is how it unfolded:
LM: Really, S1? Do you really remember that from 2-years ago? You were only 8-years old and you remember that mom was sick with a fever and throwing up?
S1: Well, yeah, I think so. That’s what she told me.
LM: S1, do you remember where you spent Christmas last year?
S1: Yes, with you.
LM: How about the year before, do you remember where you spent your Christmas Day?
S1: Yes, with mom, we didn’t go anywhere I don’t think.
LM: Are you sure?
S1: Oh, WAIT! I remember, we went to [PEW's parents house] for the day! It was fun!
LM: But Mom told you that she was sick, had a fever, and was throwing up. She was so sick that she couldn’t drive you guys out to be with me on Christmas the night before like was planned. Was she still sick when she went to [her parents] house?
S1: Oh. No. I know she wasn’t sick on Christmas because we went to [her parents] house. I remember that.
LM: S1, do you know why I had you for Christmas last year, when it was supposed to be with mom?
S1: Because the Judge said so because mom didn’t meet you for that Christmas. She lied again, didn’t she?
LM: S1, I’m sorry that this happens sometimes. It’s unfortunate. But know this, everything is back the way it should be. This year is my Christmas schedule and next year is Mom’s Christmas schedule, and as long as everyone does what they’re supposed to, everything will keep on going just fine. Do you understand that?
S1: Yes.
LM: I just need to be sure that you understand why things happened the way they did. That’s over now and everything is back as it should be, okay?
S1: Okay, I understand. I can’t WAIT to go see SS1 and SD1…
…and with that, the discussion went off into what’s happening this holiday season.
I struggled with how to handle this, as I do any time a situation like this presents itself. For “little things” - I usually just let them go. For a big-deal thing like this, I won’t. I’m convinced that the children DO need to understand that their mother lies to them from time-to-time. Truth be told, situations like this do not happen very often. I would actually categorize this as a rare occurrence. That’s not to say that it’s rare that PEW lies to the children, far from it. I’m saying that it is rare that a situation arises where I’m faced with them believing one version of history that is completely untrue AND I feel compelled to set the record straight. Collectively, situations where PEW’s lying is a topic that involves the children (mostly S1), it’s him bringing up a situation where he knows she lied to him about something. Still, this is a stressful situation because:
- You can tell it affects him/them deeply. You can see it in his face. He is disappointed in a way that only a child’s facial expression crushes you inside.
- It’s not easy to discuss such a topic and not “bad-mouth” mom. I did my best. I think I did an excellent job if I do say so myself.
- Children should not have to be burdened with dealing with such bullshit. Period.
- When do you choose not to shield the children from stuff like this? I will always second-guess myself but would do it over again and will likely have to do it one or more times down the road.
Click the “Christmas 2006″ link above and see how all of this truly unfolded if you haven’t already read it. Her fictional illness didn’t materialize until after the Christmas holiday when I made it clear that if she failed to meet, there would be swift and severe consequences. She even went so far as to go to the doctor’s after the holiday and bring a receipt & note in a horribly failed effort to convince the Judge her story was the truth. All I had to do was bring the series of emails that commenced shortly before Thanksgiving that year and culminated in the flurry right up to the exchange time. She made no bones about not meeting at the exchange point to deliver the children for my holiday well in advance. That is the truth. That is reality, even if today, she truly believes that she was seriously ill and that’s why she was unable to deliver the children for our Christmas Holiday in 2006.
For that, she paid a price. S1 and S2 will not be programmed by her disordered self to remember events that are fiction if I have any power to prevent it. As they get older, I won’t have to be faced with these types of situations. S1 has already experienced very serious issues with her lying and trying to “force him” (his words) to remember things “different than they happened.” As they get older and even more wise - her revisionist history will be dismissed outright by them. I’m not sure I would feel so strongly about it had I not managed to regain 50% custody of them.
Still, I feel sorry for them. I’ve had that experience myself. I was older and I can still remember the cavernous feelings that would ravage my stomach when I came to certain realizations about the fallibilities in my parents… and what was truth… and what was fiction. It’s tough to know that there is nothing we can do to stop our children from having that feeling if they experience those same realizations. I saw it in his face and that familiar feeling came back to me.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:51 am
LM, you did a good thing, and a good job with it. Kudos to you. I know that it’s hard. It’s something my husband and I struggle with regularly as well.
I once asked a counselor his take on it, because we were worried that we were somehow playing into parental alienation when we made the children aware of their mother’s lies. He said that bringing things up to the kids without provocation would be alienation - but when she tells them a lie, and they come to you with it, it’s your job as a parent to tell them the truth. He also gave us some suggestions on how we could do it so that they draw their own conclusions, and not just telling them flat out that she lied, which is confusing for them. Your example is an excellent one of that very thing.
Your kids are very lucky to have a father who loves them so much, and who doesn’t give up on them. I hope you, DW, and all of your children have a wonderful Christmas!
December 17th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
I agree 100% with Maria - our counselor told us the exact same thing. Thankfully these children have at least one parent that can put aside their first instinct of “setting the record straight” and can put some thought into how a situation is handled. Dealing with all the drama from BM is nothing compared to having it right in front of you in the face of a child.
December 17th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Wow, what a tough spot to be in. I’m right there with you, LM. We’ve had multiple incidents of this exact thing, and we’ve been forced to confront the same dilemma. It’s hard to walk that line between telling kids the truth and bad-mouthing the PEW. It sounds like you handled it well, and you can rest assured that your kids will start to draw their own conclusions as they get older, and probably sooner than you think. Mine certainly have.
The best approach I’ve found is similar to what you did: present them with the facts in as unbiased a manner as possible. In my situation, I’ve been fortunate in that I have been able to use documents and expert professionals.
One of the biggest lies I’ve had to deal with was my PEW’s insistence that my oldest son has Asperger’s Disorder. She took him to two visits at a questionably-rated medical facility, got an evaluation listing Asperger’s as a possible diagnosis (among other things) and ran with it. She never informed me of the evaluation until it was already over, and she set it up so that I would be unable to talk to the physician. Then she spent two years convincing my son that he was Autistic (Asperger’s is a form of Autism, but she told him he was flat-out Autistic), and eventually argued to the Court that I shouldn’t be granted any custody whatsoever because my son’s “condition” made it too stressful.
It took months of court proceedings to get the court to order a full re-evaluation at a well-regarded facility. We both participated fully, and I was able to get input from his teachers and other adults as well. Lo and behold, the doctors came to the conclusion that my son DOES NOT have Asperger’s. It was quite a shock to my son, but I made sure that he was in the room with us when the doctors gave us the results of the evaluation, because I didn’t want him to hear it second-hand from either me or the PEW. He heard it right from the horse’s mouth, as it were.
But the kicker is that PEW STILL occasionally tries to insist that my son still has Asperger’s, and that the doctors simply didn’t catch it. She’s even said so in court documents. Fortunately, because my son actually heard the doctors tell us that they found no justification for any Asperger’s diagnosis, he has been able to draw his own conclusions. Over the past year, he has begun questioning what his mother tells him more and more, and has even told him brother on several occasions that “she lied to us again.”
I still avoid directly calling the PEW a liar (at least in my kids’ presence), and I’ve told them that I will never interfere in their relationship with their mother. All I can do is present the facts as best I can, and I’ve assured them that if they ever have any questions, they can ask me and I will be as honest and forthcoming as their ages allow. I’ve also told them that there will come a day when, if they want to, we can sit down and have a completely frank and open discussion about EVERYTHING, but not until they turn 18. I think it’s important for them to know that I will be honest with them, but that I will also be up-front if I feel that I can’t answer their questions (yet) because it isn’t age-appropriate.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:10 am
Thunderstrick, you touched on what I believe is an insidious symptom of BPD. Although I have never seen anyone mention it, I believe there is a connection between BPD and Munchausen Syndrome and Munchausen Syndrome by proxy. My PEW would literally light up when one of the kids was sick. It meant she could tell anyone who would listen how sick they were. What dramatics! A sniffle was blown up into the flu. An allergy attack was cause for emergency room visit, flu was pnuemonia. In her telling, the only thing keeping the kids from death was the careful, constant attention of a loving attentive mother (her, of course).
It also gave her the excuse to cancel any plans that might have been made, so she could control the events. I can’t tell you how many holiday visits were cancelled because the kids were “sick”.
BPD’s thrive on drama as long as they are the creator of it and center of attention. What is more sympathy producing than a sick child?
When she couldn’t exagerate a child’s illness, she would fall back on one of her own numerous vague maladies: chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, pain in her lower intestines, and on and on. I recogonize those are real issues with some people, but she would never do a single thing to get rid of them. Doctors would tell her to do this or do that - she ignored each one and would go to a different doctor next time.
I apologize for leaving the subject of handling lies, but this is a type of lie that can have the most devastating affect on a child - that they are sickly and in constant fear of serious illness and that only Mamma can protect them.
December 18th, 2008 at 8:12 am
We’ve mentioned it…
http://www.thepsychoexwife.com/munchausen-syndrome-light-or-hypochondriasis-light/
December 18th, 2008 at 8:37 am
I saw that after I posted. You are ahead of me in this ground-breaking theory. Good catch.
You mention it is not MSBP because they don’t make them sick, but that is not really the requirement. While the worst cases actively make the child sick, the definition is broad enough to include a range of behavior from pretending they are sick to exageration of illness to poisoning, etc. Although my PEW didn’t MAKE them sick, she sure dramatized every sniffle and made sure everyone was aware that she was the only one that cared enough to prevent their emminent death.
December 18th, 2008 at 8:55 am
BPD often co-exists with other forms of personality disorder. Commonly it will be found with some anti-social charactersitics, or histrionic behavior. I think the illness = attention-seeking behavior probably falls into that category.
For MBP the patient must be intentionally creating or exaggeration the illness. I don’t find that, at least in our experience with a BPD ex, that it’s intentional. I think that they truly believe that things are worse than they really are - as they feel with all aspects of their lives. For them the sky is always falling, and I think it’s comforting to them on some level when they’re are taken seriously, however briefly, by someone held in as high esteem as a medical doctor.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
LM,
Thanks for covering this topic. My ex has major control issues and will act aggressively (verbally) when she does not get her way, both with me and our son. I’ve had to simply explain to my son “you know how mom is” but its so hard not to bad mouth her.
December 19th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Kudos to you, LM. You did it again, and your kiddos are blessed because of your thoughtful, careful interactions with them.
Let me just explicitly point out one thing: when you lay the facts in front of someone and allow them to come to their own conclusions, that is NOT poor-mouthing the other parent. I realize that so many true targets of PAS are sensitive — not wanting to even inadvertently be guilty of doing any alienating themselves. But you didn’t say anything bad about PEW. That was great! Thanks for modeling the right behavior.
One more thing: when a person is constantly around a liar - when their perception of reality is constantly being re-written or challenged, it becomes very difficult for them to trust their own judgments, trust their own perceptions. What you did with your son was teach him how to gather clues from his environment, how to gather historical facts (”what do you remember happening?”), and how to form (and rely on) his own truth. That’s a hugely valuable skill for someone who has to live (half the time) immersed in lies.
Yes it’s sad that your son has to deal with the devastation of realizing that his parent is fallible and imperfect. Too soon. But that is his reality, like it or not, so time to start helping him deal with that as it is. I would recommend reading “Understanding the Borderline Mother” (you, LM, not your son), and adapting some of the coping techniques in it to an age-appropriate level, and go ahead and get started teaching your kids how to deal with their mother in healthy ways.
Again — good job by you! It’s fun to see you growing as you go along on this journey, and I am always thankful for your transparency and vulnerability as you share the journey publicly so that others can learn from your experience as well.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:07 am
JB - it’s a struggle. I also have to be careful to make sure I keep my eyes on S2 as well, I can’t let him fall by the wayside just because (for now) he’s seemingly unaffected. My struggles with S1 are that he is a very emotional child (actually, they both are).
When I lay in bed at night, I sometimes can be overcome by the anxiety of wondering what it must be like at 10-years old to be having to deal with this shit. It’s very painful.
I mentioned in the post above, it’s not the first time I’ve had to deal with similar stuff - and the toughest times have been when he says things like, “…she forces me to remember things different than they happened.” That’s FAR MORE DAMAGING in my opinion that “simply” pegging the parent as a liar. She’s forcing him to accept and acknowledge that negative things he’s experienced with her didn’t happen that way. Or, the flip side… she’s forcing him to remember positive things with me in ways different (negative) than they actually happened. The complete and utter confusion for a 10-year old child is unimaginable for me. All I know is that the physical feelings I get in my chest and stomach when I stop and think about it are scary… and I’m not 10. I’ve had and detailed countless similar experiences with The PEW and even as I type this, I flippantly refer to it as “revisionist history” - but it’s really serious. The barrage of that type of behavior can literally drive you to question your own sanity and even bring you close to second-guessing what is reality. What does that do to a 10-year old? A 7-year old?
When people wonder why I stayed so long (pre-kids is inexcusable, after kids… a different story) - THIS is precisely a reason. One of the many important ones. I stayed to mitigate their exposure to this kind of behavior on the part of PEW. Now, the family is broken and they’re “stuck in it” 50% of the time (which is a helluva lot, but a lot less than it used to be).
These have always been my fears and I have no idea what long-term impact situations like this (among others) will have on them.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
LM,
I’d like to make a suggestion. Feel free to disregard it if you don’t think it would be helpful.
As I mentioned, I’ve had a lot of the same problems with the PEW’s lying and “revisionist history.” My kids (ages 11, 9 and 5) have talked about similar experiences as well.
In hindsight, the best thing I ever did was get my older son into twice-monthly therapy. I was fortunate in that we were able to find a therapist who is really good with kids, and who was able to form a strong bond with my son. It’s given him an outlet to talk about things that are bothering him, and it gives him an opportunity to talk about what’s happening with someone who isn’t actually involved in the drama. I’ve seen a huge improvement in my son over the last year in how he deals with stressful situations, and how he copes with problems, particularly in situations were he is told something (like the Asperger’s thing) that he knows is untrue. He is trapped in that situation for 50% of the time, like your kids, and I think his therapy helps him to feel grounded in reality and sanity. My second son is getting to an age where I think he would benefit from going to therapy as well, now that he’s less oblivious to what’s going on. (PEW is, of course, fighting against therapy for either of them, so don’t be surprised if that develops.)
You’re the best judge, of course, as to whether you think that would be a good route for your family, but I wanted to throw it out there for you.
December 22nd, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I do think you did a great job. I hate that part, too. It’s unfortunate that they just can’t trust their mother, a person they should be able to trust without question. I also agree that it’s difficult, but important, to do it calmly, without denigration. It keeps things so much less confusing for the kiddos. And they do, really, begin to understand before too long.