The Psycho Ex Wife

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After Part 7 of the custodial interference via phone calls series, we begin winding things down and we’ll make this the conclusion of the series.

For one thing - I’ve beaten this topic to death, but felt it was important to see how a child’s mind can be influenced by a disordered parent.  Parental alienation exists and it’s an effective tool of the malicious ex-partner when left unaddressed.  When it’s done on the phone, you’re not very likely to figure out what the hell is going on and why.  I know I didn’t.  I had my suspicions, but could never prove anything.  The recordings simply confirmed those suspicions.  The other reason this is the conclusion is that after this phone call, she would refuse to allow the recording of phone calls.

The was one phone call between the one I document today and the one detailed in Part 7.  It was more of the same where she initiated discussions about the things she had bought them and that was the bulk of their discussion.  Again - it contained nothing about what they were doing or did or anything about the kids.  It was all about the gifts, all about PEW, and all about practically counting the minutes until they would be reunited again.

In this phone call, which took place after our August 2005 court hearing and during my next custodial time, we discuss a disciplinary action I took because S1 refused to eat his dinner.  We were supposed to go fishing at the lake.  His refusal to participate in dinner cost him that excursion.  If you’ve read any of the stories in the discipline category - you’ll realize that the approaches to discipline between PEW and I are quite different.  She has none.  I do.  There is no means of discipline I could impose that PEW will ever think is appropriate.  This makes sense because she simply has no concept of boundaries, expectations, or managing the children’s behavior (in positive ways or through appropriate disciplinary action).  Aside from her outbursts, smacking them in the mouth or head, or bull-rushing them into fearful situations, she just couldn’t bring herself to depart from the buddy-buddy Disneyland Mom gift-giving role, probably because she viewed the children’s disappointment at having to be punished as them not loving her.  See: Abandonment Issues.

As a result - she informs the children that they don’t have to follow the rules at our home.  Further, she undermines my punishment by promising them a fishing trip when they got home.  (Of course, in keeping with the theme that she doesn’t do much with the kids directly, someone else - her brother - would be responsible for providing that.)  After opening with our mutual recording exchanges, she starts her conversations with S2.  In his usual fashion, he was short and got off the phone quickly.  Nothing too unusual about the discussion.  Then, “the target” we know and love as S1 got on the phone…

S1: Hi, mom.
PEW: Hi, S1 How are you doing?
S1: Good.
PEW: What’s the matter?
S1: I was crying because I couldn’t go fishing today.
PEW: Oh. Awww. Why you crying still? You can go fishing another day.
S1: (a little whiney) I know but, I really don’t… just so you know, when I’m being babysitted by Aunt Psycho-SIL, I really don’t do anything. Okay? I’m just home and I don’t like being home, so. You know?
PEW: (serious tone) What do you mean?

#1 - He wasn’t crying.  He did that back then.  He would say he was crying, but he wasn’t crying.  He’s telling her what he knows she wants to hear.  Also, when I say “serious tone” - it doesn’t convey how the hair on my neck stands up when I hear “that voice.”  “That voice” is the one that indicates that the switch has been thrown.  It’s the mean “I’m about to explode” voice.  I still can visualize the steely eyes, the blank look that overcomes her face, and the knowledge that she’s about to go over the deep end. Fortunately, the end of that description doesn’t happen and she pulls it together, instead trying to convince S1 that he has a wonderful time when with her and family members.

S1: I just don’t like being home because you don’t take me going fishing, you don’t take me to the park, you know. Mostly I’m just hanging out at home all the time.
PEW: Well, why are you saying that when Aunt Psycho-SIL took you to Chuck E. Cheese, she took you to, ummm… she took you to see Willy Wonka… she took you to…

Later in this exchange, I’ll point out an important pattern that develops…

S1: Yeah, but I mean like cool stuff like fishing or exploring in the woods and stuff. Stuff like that.
PEW: Oh. Okay, what are you saying?
S1: What?
PEW: What are you saying to me? What about camp? Do you like camp?

Hey PEW, he’s saying it sucks when you leave him at home with your drunk and disorderly sister.  Does a 6-year old have to spell it out for you?  Sheesh.

S1: What?
PEW: Do you like going to camp?
S1: No, I hate camp. (continues slightly whiney) I don’t like it at all. Okay? I hate it.
PEW: Okay. What do you want to do when you’re home, I mean…
S1: What?
PEW: Don’t you think those things were fun things to do? We went to Chuck E. Cheese and, what else did you guys do?
S1: I don’t know.
PEW: And Aunt Psycho-SIL took you to the park, remember, where [Frankie] lives?
S1: Yeah.
PEW: Yeah. So are you making up stories? Why are you saying you don’t do stuff with me? You do lots of stuff with Aunt Psycho-SIL.
S1: Well, I mean like fishing and exploring in the woods, that’s what I’m talking about.
PEW: Okay. Well, I don’t have a lake, but [Grandmom] has a pool and we go swimming there all the time.
S1: Yeah, but we can find a lake!
PEW: Well, what’s wrong with swimming in the pool?
S1: What?
PEW: What’s wrong with swimming in the pool at [Grandmom's] house?
S1: I don’t know.
PEW: You don’t know?
S1: Yeah, I just like fishing.
PEW: You like what?
S1: I only like fishing.
PEW: All right, well, when you were with Psycho-FIL, you fished like, 5-times. We can go fishing when you come home. I know how to fish.

He’s talking about something other than getting the latest goldfish out of the fish tank at Petco, PEW.

S1: All right.
PEW: All right.
S1: Okay, so…
PEW: Why are you crying, S1, I don’t understand what you’re upset about.

Again she suggests he’s crying.  He’s not.  But he will be in short order…

S1: (whining) Well, it’s because I didn’t get to go fishing. (Something else inaudible)
PEW: You don’t get to do everything you want to do.
S1: Well, it’s just because I didn’t eat dinner I didn’t get to.
PEW: Oh, because you didn’t eat dinner?
S1: (whining) Because I didn’t like the pasta stuff and I didn’t like the meatballs.
PEW: Oh. Well, that’s daddy’s rule, that’s not my rule. What do you want me to do?

That’s PEW’s parenting style.  She asks 6-year old, “What do you want me to do?” She does this after indicating that it isn’t “her” rule.  For the record, S1 loves pasta and meatballs.  DW and I make home made pasta gravy, I make home made meatballs, and all of the kids love it.  The problem on this evening is that S1 was so jazzed up to go fishing, I think he believed he would get there faster by skipping dinner.

S1: I don’t know. (Whining which transitions to crying – inaudible)
PEW: What, baby?
S1: What? What mom? What did you say? (still crying)
PEW: But you know you can’t go fishing all the time. When you come home next… we’ll go fishing when you come home next week. Okay?
S1: (crying) (inaudible)
PEW: What? What do you want to do?
S1: I want to go fishing while we (inaudible) somewhere.
PEW: Okay.
S1: Okay.
PEW: I’ll take you fishing, don’t worry. I love you.

So much for Dad’s disciplinary measure.  She just blew it out of the water, undermining me by promising to take him fishing.  On the surface, this might seem completely normal.  Mom is going to take son fishing.  It’s the reason that she’s taking him fishing - because Dad didn’t take him because he refused to eat dinner.  She still doesn’t understand that she is “building” a manipulative little boy with her antics.

S1: All right.
PEW: Are you okay?
S1: (now not crying) Yeah.
PEW: You’re okay?
S1: (not crying) Yeah.
PEW: All right, well we’ll do a lot of fishing when you come home. Okay?
S1: All right.

Think I’m wrong?  Cry… mom promises something, in this case - fishing… crying immediately stops.  You could actually be a bad parent and recognize this pattern.  PEW can’t/doesn’t/won’t.  I’m not sure which one.

PEW: Oh, [Uncle Youngest Brother] just said that he’ll take you fishing.
S1: What?
PEW: [Uncle Youngest Brother] just said that he’ll take you fishing, too.

Notice the pattern, yet?  The pattern is, she speaks about the things that the boys do with a whole bunch of other people - but not PEW! This is very common behavior on the part of PEW.  The boys did things with Aunt Psycho-SIL.  The boys did things with Grandmom and Grandpop.  The boys did things with their Uncles.  At no time did PEW ever explain to S1 anything that SHE actually did with them.  Further, when she DID do things with them, almost always it was done with someone else present.

S1: Okay.
PEW: He’s here. And uh, he’s here with [cousin] today and [cousin] and [his wife]. We’re at Grandmom’s.
S1: What?
PEW: Okay?
S1: All right.
PEW: So, are you all right, S1?
S1: (begins crying again) No, I just really want to see you. (inaudible)
PEW: I’m having a hard time hearing you, buddy.
S1: Okay, I don’t like it here.
PEW: You don’t like it there?
S1: I’m all right Mom. (still crying)
PEW: You only have like 5 more days.

Man, I hate that.  “You ONLY have 5 more days.”  Could she prompt any more dread in the mind of an impressionable young boy?  Your time at the Gulag will be over soon… IF YOU SURVIVE… MUWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!” Disgraceful.

S1: All right.
PEW: I love you S1, you’ll be all right. What don’t you like? The rules?
S1: Right. (still crying)
PEW: But you like being with your Dad, right?
S1: Right. Can you just, not use Daddy’s rules list? Because I don’t like those rules.
PEW: Oh.
S1: What?
PEW: Well, at least when you come home you don’t have to listen to those rules. I got my own rules, right?

What rules would those be, PEW?  Rule #1 - Anything goes.  Rule #2 - See rule #1.  S1 manipulates and she’s on the hook.  The boy is a good fisherman.

S1: Right.
PEW: So don’t worry about it. We’ll go fishing, [Uncle Youngest Brother] will take you fishing, and we’ll have a good time when you get home.

“Someone else will do something with you and it will be fun.  And when you come home from your fishing trip with someone else, we’ll talk about me.”

S1: Okay.
PEW: Are you crying for me or are you crying because you don’t like to follow the rules?
S1: I’m crying because I don’t like to follow the rules and because I miss you. It’s just because I miss you. (sobs and whines)
PEW: S1. Is daddy there?
S1: No, because I’m in the bathroom talking to you.
PEW: You’re in the bathroom?
S1: Yes, I wanted to talk in here because I don’t want people hearing when I talk.

Remember this for when I provide you the next link, because I’ve already posted some of this overall phone discussion.  S1 is upstairs in the house.  Everyone else is downstairs.  He voluntarily went up and into the bathroom for the very reason he states.  He’s blowing smoke up her ass and he doesn’t want anyone to hear it.

PEW: Oh. Why, does daddy get mad at you because you say you miss me?

Objection your honor!  Leading the witness (again).  S1 didn’t say any such thing.  Not in any phone call at all.  She plants the seed knowing he’ll say “yes” and then she can claim he told her that.

S1: Yes.
PEW: Why?
S1: Because I say it every day.
PEW: Oh.
S1: Right after the first day because that’s when I start.
PEW: All right, well you know your mommy loves you, right? And when you get home and when you get home in 5 days, right, and then we’ll have lots of fun.
S1: Okay.
PEW: Actually it’s 6 days, but, I love you and Mom-Mom loves you, and Aunt Psycho-SIL and [Uncle Youngest Brother and his wife]…

Yes, everyone else loves you way more than your father does and when you get home I will shower you with gifts and love and you don’t have to follow any rules and you can do whatever you want…

S1: All right (sobs)
PEW: All right
S1: Yes.
PEW: Why don’t you put your dad on the phone so I can talk to him for a second.
S1: When can I talk to you again.
PEW: What?
S1: When can I talk to you again?
PEW: Okay. But I think your dad should be comforting you when you’re this upset. You know?
S1: But (inaudible)
PEW: What?
S1: (inaudible)
PEW: You hear [cousin]? You hear him yelling?
S1: [...has gone to get Dad]

It is here that I get on the phone and the discussion detailed in the post Top 10 Household Rules and Consequences takes place.  You can click on that link to read it.  I’ll wait for you to come back and you can continue from here.  GO!  I’ll wait, I promise…

Okay, carrying on…

That post ended where she changed the subject, and this post will pick it up from there…

PEW: Did you get my last email?
LM: No, I haven’t been on the computer in a while.
PEW: You’re not gonna like it.
LM: What, it’s probably chock-full of name-calling I’m sure. Didn’t your lawyer warn you against that?
PEW: No, he said I could answer your emails with whatever I feel is necessary. If I’m not threatening you in any way, I’m not like, umm, you know, I’m not like neglecting my kids.
LM: Okay. I’m sure it will be highly amusing.
PEW: Not as amusing as yours. So.
LM: Something else?
PEW: Yeah, what’s S1 doing right now?
LM: He’s sitting down, watching a movie with a smile on his face. Then he’ll get back on the phone and probably cry to you. Just minding his own business like he was before he got on the phone with you.
PEW: Yeah because he told me that you get upset when he tells me he misses me. He’s not allowed to express himself.

See how the twisted mind distorts reality? He didn’t tell her any such thing. She told him that and he replied affirmatively. This is what she does. She’s the PEW.

LM: I do not get upset when S1 says he misses you.
PEW: Like any 7-year old boy that…
LM: (interrupts) PEW, I’m gonna tell you one more time, I do not get upset when he misses you.
PEW: You’re a liar. You’re a liar.
LM: No, I do not.
PEW: And S2 told me you said it breaks your heart when he says that he misses me. That’s what he told me when he was home.
LM: No. That’s not what I said.
PEW: And trust me, I tell my lawyer everything.
LM: That’s fine.
PEW: (I believe to someone else present on her end) He tells the kids that it breaks his heart that they say they want to go home or they miss me.
LM: See, you have to understand that kids sometimes get things mixed up. And what I said was that it breaks my heart when all you want to do is go home. We have things to do here, we have to spend time together, and that all you do is talk about… because you prompt them by telling them about the gekkos… that’s all you know how to talk about is the lizards, the gecko, you’re feeding them, they miss you – you encourage them to want to go home. And what I have to do is to try to undo that damage that you do, and I tell them, “when all you want to do is rush home to your gekkos, that breaks my heart. Because we’re having fun here, we’re doing things together, it’s important that you spend time with me…” These are things that you’re supposed to be doing that you don’t do. Okay. And that’s what I said. I never, ever said that it breaks my heart when they miss you. I tell them that I know that you miss your mother. I understand that you miss your mother. You love your mother very much and she loves you, but you have to understand that you have to spend time with both of us. That’s what I tell them each and every time. And I understand that S2 might have gotten things mixed up during the course of a conversation we may have had. But one thing that, as God as my witness, that I do not say to those kids is that it breaks my heart when they tell me that you miss mommy. They tell me that every day. And I understand.

Even so, looking back on this, I shouldn’t have used that phrase. I probably should have used “upset” or “disappointed.”

PEW: When I say, that, they got hysterical the day before they were coming home and it took me an hour to calm them down, all I kept saying is that your dad loves you and he wants to spend time with you, He misses you.
LM: Yeah, but you see, this is after a systematic week of you buying stuff and then you prompting them to ask me to come home early. And they get hysterical on the phone because you’re encouraging that behavior. Okay.
PEW: I’m not encouraging it.

Just lies right through her teeth, she does…

LM: You are encouraging it, PEW.
PEW: But I’ll tell you what, I don’t mind them crying as much as I mind them saying like, that, they had to hide in the bathroom to talk about it.
LM: S1 did not…
PEW: Because he’s afraid that you’ll get upset.
LM: I will not get upset.
PEW: Well, I hope you’re giving him lots of hugs and reassurance.
LM: Absolutely, and I told… we had talked about why we didn’t go fishing today, we were up in the bedroom by ourselves just chatting away…
PEW: (interrupts) That was your decision, to take away his fishing trip because he didn’t eat all of his dinner?
LM: He didn’t eat any of his dinner.
PEW: That’s not the consequence for not eating dinner.

Of course not.

LM: Yes it is. It was the consequence…
PEW: (interrupts) You decided to jerk him around.
LM: No, that was the consequence tonight. In order get the things that you want, you have to do the right thing and you have to eat your meals.
PEW: It’s not the consequence on the list, though, is it? It’s whatever consequence you feel like giving him that’s going to hurt him as badly as possible.

Flip-flopper now chooses to reference the list that she previously decided to trash.  Much like the mind of a child, she comes at me with, “But that’s not a consequence on the list.” Seriously.

LM: No, that’s not true.
PEW: Well, I really think that you’re seriously a warped individual…
LM: (interrupts) It’s not a fishing trip, we walk down the lake and we fish in the lake. Stop making it out to be a big deal. We were fishing yesterday and we’ll go fishing tomorrow as long as he does the right things during the day. That’s the way it works.
PEW: It was a big deal to him, though.
LM: I understand that, but guess what? You don’t get to do the things that you want if you don’t do the things that you’re supposed to do. It’s real simple cause-and-effect situation that most reasonable people encourage. Okay? They don’t get snacks when they don’t do the right things, they don’t get enjoy special things when they don’t do the right things. Now, I know that this is a problem for you to understand, but don’t sit here and act like it’s abnormal, it’s not, PEW.
PEW: You’re abnormal, LM.

The mind of a child at work…

LM: I know how you feel about me, stop. It really doesn’t bother me anymore that you call me names, okay?
PEW: I think it does.

The mind of a child at work…

LM: I know, that’s why you do it. You’re going to keep doing it because that’s all you know how to do. But the fact is, this is not unreasonable.
PEW: Well, until you do what’s right by your children, until you do the right thing…
LM: (interrupts) I am doing just that. I am doing just that.
PEW: You’re not doing the right things.
LM: Yes, I am.
PEW: If you were doing the right thing, they would be coming home today. And then, they would come back to you next week.
LM: They would be coming home today?
PEW: Yeah, they would be doing a week there and a week here. But no, you had to drag me all the way down to… to take exactly would I offered you in the first place.
LM: Hang on. Before you get started on this course, I’ve got to make sure I don’t run out of tape because this is going to be priceless. So let me see if I can flip the tape over before you get started and you can tell me how I dragged you wherever it is you think I dragged you. Oh, nope, we’re still rolling, go ahead.
PEW: I offered you half the summer and what did you wind up with?

More than that.

LM: I have nothing to say regarding the court stuff, I just want to let you go off. Go on.
PEW: No, I said what did you wind up with, that I offered you, in the beginning? Half the summer, right? But you weren’t satisfied with the fact that I said when they get a little bit older, like when S2 is about S1’s age, a whole summer wouldn’t be out of the question, but no, you had to…
LM: (interrupts) What did Gloria recommend?
PEW: What did Gloria recommend? Uhhhhh…
LM: Uhhhhh… you know what she recommended.
PEW: She must…
LM: The only thing I got was because there are other issues that need to be ironed out, otherwise, you would have had two weeks this summer. Okay? That’s the reality.
PEW: No, you know what? That’s not the reality.
LM: That is the reality.
PEW: Because I would have appealed that.

I didn’t give a shit what she would have done.  She would have had 2-weeks in the summer time.  She can’t force her lips to admit the truth!  Back then, it was frustrating as all hell.  Now, all I can do is laugh at it.  You can almost see her slamming her eyes shut, covering her ears, and yelling, “LALALALALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOU!!!”

LM: I know, because remember… because you said, because you said what you said you weren’t going to say, which is that I pulled the wool over Gloria’s eyes, I fooled her, etcetera etcetera, right?
PEW: Right.
LM: All right. I’ve had enough of talking to you. So, do you want to speak to S1 some more?
PEW: Yes.
LM: Okay.

At this point, the tape ran out and I obviously didn’t realize that.  The very next phone call, when I informed her that it would be taped, she declined permission to allow it and so that will end the transcripts here.  I’m sure this 8-part mess was dreadful enough to endure.

So, I believe now is a good time to suggest that you give yourself a refresher on low-contact by clicking here: Appropriate Means of Contact With High-Conflict Personalities

You can’t read it enough.  Learn it.  Live it.  Love it.  It makes a tremendously positive difference if you’re stuck in the cycles like I was during my marriage to PEW and throughout the first half (or so) of the split.  If you’re in a new relationship - it can be a relationship-saver.  I’ve lost count of the number of emails I’ve received from people who have reported everything from reduced stress to literally saving marriages.

Good luck if you’re going through this type of mess.  Go low-contact.  If you don’t have children - go no-contact.