Phone Call Series: Lies, Manipulation, Custodial Interference, Parental Alienation - Part 4
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In part 3 of the phone call series, PEW had ramped up her efforts to interfere with my parenting time by telling the children to ask me to bring them home early. In addition to that, she went through the usual negative talk and prompting the kids to cry and complain about their time with us. It’s abundantly clear from the discussions that she couldn’t care less about anything positive that might be going on with them, actively dismissing any talk of fun times and interesting things they were doing.
While I didn’t know it at the time of the last call, I had inquired about how their discussion turned so negative and PEW flat-out lied about what was said on the phone. By this call the following night in July of 2005, I had listened to the recording and discovered the depth of her efforts and he lyi
PEW: Hello?
LM: Hello. It’s me calling.
PEW: Hello. Recording!
LM: Yeah?
PEW: Yeah.
LM: You are huh?
PEW: Yeah, I just wanted to let you know.
LM: Okay. I’m lettin’ you know, too. Uh, I’m also letting you know that I spoke to S1 last night about, uh, why it’s important for him to spend meaningful time with me until Sunday and contrary to your assertion last night on the phone, what he told me was that you told him to ask me.
PEW: He said he wanted to come home and I said you have to ask daddy.
LM: I don’t think that’s what took place, PEW.
Actually, I know what took place because S1 told me straight what had taken place.
PEW: Well, what you… did you listen to the tape that you supposedly have?
LM: No, I spoke with S1.
PEW: Okay. Well, he told me that he wanted to come home, like he did the night before. He said “I can’t wait till this is over when can I come home” and I said, ummm, either…
LM: Save it, save it, okay? Cuz you’re not telling the truth and with that, I will take the phone downstairs and you can talk to your kids. But do me a favor and please stop being so manipulative with them.
PEW: I’m not being manipulative with them.
LM: Try asking them, try asking them how they’re day went, not if they’re bored…
PEW: I did ask them!
LM: …not “if you want to come home” and not “ask your father if you want to come home early.”
PEW: Well, I’ll save the tapes for you because from now on I’m taping every conversation I have with them. So…
LM: Wonderful!
PEW: …I, I mean, you can hear what I say, you can hear what they say.
LM: Great.
PEW: Goodbye.
LM: Thank you. (Distant) Okay guys, who’s first? (inaudible)
I stayed calm and factual, even in the face of her lies. Obviously, I had the recording and knew exactly what took place. You saw it with the transcript in Part 3. Still, I attempted to be reasonable and, it actually worked for a little bit. You can see in the discussion with S1 that she attempted to actively engage S1 in positive discussion about his day. For a bit anyway…
S1: Hi, Mom.
PEW: Hello, how ya doin?
S1: Guess what we did, Mommy?
PEW: What?
S1: Umm, we went… just so you know, this is S1 this time.
PEW: I know.
S1: And, umm, we went to the pet store today and, we got to go to the park, we fed the ducks, we got to run around the house, we colored.
PEW: Yeah?
S1: Yeah.
PEW: Well good. So, what you get at the pet store anything? Or you just went shopping there, just to look.
S1: What?
PEW: Did you get something at the pet shop or did you just go to look?
I’ve often mentioned how PEW is a “buyer of love and affection.” I don’t overstate things when I say it’s a rare time when she takes the boys shopping for anything, even to the grocery store, where they don’t come home with some kind of gift, toy, or something. It’s a habit and one that is demonstrated by her question about whether or not they got something when the boys went to the pet shop.
S1: Go to look at the animals. They had a parrot that gets to go free and there are other animals get to go free, too. I used a like…
PEW: Really?
S1: The birds get to go free, okay? The birds get to fly free. Because their tops, their cages have no tops.
PEW: Oh.
S1: And the big parrot that they have – he gets to fly where he wants, he gets to be outside his cage.
PEW: Did they have dogs?
S1: Umm, no.
PEW: No? Oh.
S1: They only have parrots there, lizards, snakes, and also… let me think… fish
PEW: Mmmhmm. Oh.
S1: And, let me think… oh, they had tortoises.
PEW: Yeah?
S1: We get to saw a tortoise eat!
PEW: Really? Like a big tortoise?
S1: Yeah, a big one.
PEW: Cool. What are you guys doing tomorrow, didn’t, umm, daddy say you had something special to do?
She plants seeds better than an avid gardener. At what point was it even mentioned that I had promised them something special to do?
S1: Umm, we’re going golfing, but the special thing is we get to have a bath tomorrow if we’re good and then it’s a special bath, It acts… it’s called a tornado bath.
PEW: Uh-huh.
S1: And, wait… (to S2) – Can you please stop making noise, I can’t hear mommy.
PEW: A what, like a big giant…
S1: (beings laughing hysterically)
PEW: What’s the matter?
S1: What? (laughing)
PEW: What happened?
S1: (laughing) S2 sat on the dinosaur and it squeaked!
PEW: (laughing) That’s funny!
S1: (laughing) He like had the, the long-necked dinosaur (inaudible/laughing) …on the counter, he sits down on it and it squeaked!
PEW: (laughing) Did it scare him when he sat?
S1: (laughing) No, but he’s a little goof!
PEW: (laughing) Funny. It’s good to hear you laughin’.
S1: I know.
PEW: So, you having fun today?
S1: (inaudible & laughing) All he says is “dinosaur” and he sits down on it and it squeaks. He’s like “dinosaur, squeak” – sounds like he farted or something.
PEW: He’s silly. So, that’s good. Is the one of those big, giant tubs that they have?
Into interrogation mode she goes. S1 is explaining about a funny situation involving S2 and she’s desperate to find out about what kind of tub we have. Nevermind what S1 wants to talk about, she wants details on our bathroom.
S1: Wait, and then he was walking but he was holding it and he was said, “I’m a dinosaur.”
PEW: Wasn’t that on a show or something?
S1: What?
PEW: Wasn’t that on one of those shows?
S1: Umm, no.
PEW: Oh. You’re funny. Can you hear me okay?
S1: Yeah.
PEW: Oh. Cuz you gotta…
S1: Umm, that was so funny, he was like, “dinosaur, squeak!” That was so funny! (laughing)
PEW: (laughing) I love your laugh.
S1: I know.
PEW: You’ve got a funny laugh.
S1: I know.
PEW: You’re cute.
S1: Guess what? One time, we went to animal shelter and we found this funny looking cat.
PEW: Yeah?
S1: Yeah. He had all curly hair and then he looked, he looked mean, but he was nicer than he looked?
PEW: Really? You…
S1: He was purring, coming up, you could touch him, you know?
PEW: Uh-huh. What were you doing at the animal shelter?
S1: Umm, we were just checkin’ them out. It was a couple days ago.
PEW: Oh. What were you lookin’ at? Cats and dogs? Or…
S1: Yeah, only cats and dogs.
PEW: Oh.
S1: They only had cats and dogs. You know, guess what? They had a shepherd there. A German Shepherd.
PEW: Oh.
S1: He was really big, I’m tellin’ ya!
PEW: I wanna check out the animal shelter up here.
S1: He was almost up to… his head… was his whole, whole front of the body, was his head… his head was probably up to my neck.
PEW: Really? Wow. That’s big.
S1: I’m telling you, he was huge!
PEW: (laughs) I believe you!
S1: He was grey, he looked so cute. He was such a cutie!
PEW: (laughs) You love dogs, don’t ya?
S1: Yeah. Umm, he was big and he had blue eyes.
PEW: Really? Are you sure it wasn’t a Husky?
S1: Umm, Suzie said it was a German Shepherd.
PEW: Oh, okay. Oh. Maybe it was like a Shepherd – Husky mix or something.
S1: Yeah. I think she said it was a Shepherd – Husky mix.
PEW: Uh-huh.
S1: Yeah, that’s what she said it was, it was an Shepherd-Ger… what did, what did you say?
PEW: Shepherd-Husky mix?
S1: Yeah, that’s what it was.
PEW: Yeah, okay, because I think only Huskies have blue eyes so that’s probably what it was.
S1: It was a mixed-breed?
PEW: Yeah. Yeah. So, I love you.
S1: I love you, too.
PEW: You’re a good boy.
S1: Okay, well, bye.
PEW: I can’t wait to see you Sunday.
S1: I know.
PEW: All right. All right, well have fun tomorrow when you go golfing. You’re going to miniature golf place?
S1: Yeah, I just can’t wait until after tomorrow!
PEW: Me, too. I’m gonna give you a big hug and a squeeze.
S1: I know. I’m gonna miss you so much I’m gonna keep kissing you all day.
PEW: You are? All day?
S1: Uh-huh. Like every once in a while I’ll kiss you.
PEW: Okay. That sounds good. I can’t wait.
S1: I’m gonna be… I’m just gonna be so happy when I get to see you.
PEW: I know, it’s only one day.
S1: I know. I’m so happy.
PEW: And you got so much fun stuff to do tomorrow, right?
S1: Right.
PEW: Good.
S1: Cause, me and S2 get Daddy all to ourselves.
PEW: That’s nice. So, you guys are gonna do… buy stuff?
Buy stuff? Jeez. Buy buy buy, spend spend spend.
S1: Yeah. Um, mom, I think I’m breakin’ up with you?
PEW: Oh really?
S1: Yeah.
PEW: Can you hear me now?
S1: Uh, see, I’m… Mom?
PEW: What?
S1: I don’t know, I just keep hearing this beeping noise and I don’t know what’s wrong.
PEW: Oh, maybe Daddy has call-waiting and somebody is beeping in.
S1: Oh.
PEW: Probably.
S1: Oh. Bye.
PEW: Bye, I love you.
S1: I love you, too.
PEW: See you soon.
S1: Okay.
PEW: Bye.
This was a little better. If not for S1 actually doing the re-directing back to what he wanted to talk about, I’m sure she would have devolved back into the same things that have been demonstrated by all the other calls to this point. Then it was S2’s turn…
S2: Hi, Dad… Hi, Mom.
PEW: Hi! What are you doing?
S2: Good.
PEW: You’re doing good?
S2: Yeah.
PEW: Yeah? I love you.
S2: Yeah. I love you, too.
PEW: What’s the matter?
S2: Well, S1, Daddy put me in my room because I was talking and S1 couldn’t hear on the phone.
PEW: Oh.
S2: Daddy put me in my room.
PEW: And your dinosaur, too?
S2: When you… Yeah, he took my dinosaur away.
Know that he was permitted to play in his room. One of the things that was important to me and I believed important for PEW was for their contact to be uninterrupted. S2 was in a very goofy mood on this particularly night and it was distracting S1 from talking to PEW. I was fairly convinced that if that dinosaur squeaked one more time, S1 would get into a fit of laughter he wouldn’t be able to recover from. The rest of this exchange was very humorous and S2 was saying things that were all in good fun. If you could hear it, it would make you laugh, too.
PEW: (laughing) Awww.
S2: When you come here to pick me up, can you beat him up?
PEW: (laughing) What?!?! Beat him up?
S2: Can you beat, can you beat daddy up?
PEW: Noooo.
S2: Beat him up! (laughing)
PEW: Noooo. You can’t beat daddy up.
S2: You need to beat him up. (laughing)
PEW: You’re silly!
S2: (laughing) I want you to beat him up.
PEW: Make your dinosaur squeak. Did you get it back yet?
S2: No.
PEW: S1 thought that was so funny.
S2: After I’m done talking to my… done talking to you I’m gonna get it back.
PEW: S1 thought it was so funny when you said “I’m a dinosaur, squeak!”
S2: When I said, “dinosaur” and I sat on it and I went, [to the tune “London Bridge”] “I’m riding on a dinosaur, dinosaur, dinosaur. I’m riding on a dinosaur, di-no-saury.” (laughs)
PEW: (laughs) You’re funny. You’re a funny guy.
S2: Bye, I love you.
PEW: I love you, too, see you soon buddy. Okay? Hello?
As S2 often does, he ended his discussion with usual abruptness. He just hangs up or abandons the phone (at age 4) when he is finished.
I’m sure that you all believe that my confronting her about encouraging S1 to ask me to come home was a bit tame, but maybe I was learning that getting all amped-up about it was a worthless effort. I’m guessing I thought it was enough to simply let her know that I knew the truth might alter her approach to discussions with the children.
In part 5, the bulk of the discussion centers around her desire to avoid coming to pick up the children, as she is able to do, but just doesn’t want to. I think I’ll leave that part in there because it’s another interesting demonstration of how I confront her with her own words and logic, but it doesn’t deter her from twisting things into something that is only a benefit to her. As for the discussion with the children, it gets really uncomfortable. It probably doesn’t come through in the written word, but the next call does demonstrate her inability to relate to the children and ask them about what they’re up to. It ends up being a repetitive exchange of “I love you, I miss you, I can’t wait to see you, you’re a good boy do you know that” stuff.



November 4th, 2009 at 10:35 am
[...] After I listen to what actually took place during the conversation, I’m incensed and I address it with her the next night, which will open Part 4. [...]
November 4th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Now THAT is what a “normal nightly conversation should sound like. I congratulate S1 on his ability to keep her on track. Did you have a discussion with him about how to do that? If not that was very mature of him, at 6, to discover; if he could keep it up it would make his time with you so much more redeeming.
I do believe the success of the call had a lot to do with the fact that you had just called her out on everything and perhaps she was recording so she could prove she had ONE good conversation with the boys.
November 4th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
Yes. S1 would often complain to me that PEW had nothing to say during phone calls. So, I gave him some tips on regular “day-to-day” questions to ask of her that would spirit some conversation out of her. Simple things like…
- How was your day?
- What types of things did you do today?
- Did you have fun?
- Did you visit anyone in the family today?
…and, of course, little follow up questions or comments like “tell me about that, Mom.” I can’t begin to describe how cringeworthy the discussions would normally be, quickly devolving into her using that high-pitched whiny voice and it just being repetitious exchanges of “I love you, I miss you, I love you, I love you again, I miss you, I miss you, I love you, I want to kiss you.” If not for the efforts of S1, that’s pretty much how every discussion would go.
Also, teaching him that it was okay to try and tell her that questions about dad or DW were not his business and she should ask us those questions if she wants to know. If he feels uncomfortable answering questions about things not relevant to him, he doesn’t have to answer.
Still, while a much better effort, most of it was directed by S1 and, she still managed to slip with her compulsion to ask inappropriate questions or continually set me up to be a bad guy (with the buying things questions and by saying I promised to do special things for them and such). It is a compulsion.
The kids now know well how to carry a conversation with her if they want to. They’re also old enough to recognize when she is trying to use them as a spy, so to the best of my knowledge, the crap the likes of which you’ve been reading about in 2005 are not a part of today’s phone conversations to the best of my knowledge… but of course, I don’t record anymore.
November 4th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
Yea, now she just waits until they get home and screams, yells, and threatens them to find out what she wants to know, but we are the ones “torturing” them. *rollseyes*
November 5th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
My SS’s bio mom has them “go to private room” for their nightly call. The boys are 10 and 12 now. It is silly. I remember one year sitting in the living room listening to youngest step son tell answer how many Christmas gifts I reacieved, what their father had boughten me, when, where, and how much it cost! These woman really need to get a life!
When my kids are with their father - which is only every other weekend (by his choice) I dont call. We all seem to survive from Friday night to Sunday afternoon without speaking to each other. I figure he seems them so little why take anytime away from it. On the other hand, I am 100% confident that if they needed something or he needed something he/they would call.
I actually ENJOY my little “break” from my kids. I love them to death but it is nice to have some time to yourself. In fact, I think it is healthy.
Wow! That is all I can say, you have quite PEW on your hands!
November 9th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
[...] Have your own psycho ex? Get a FREE Report on “Why Co-Parenting Doesn’t Work”, or learn how to win child custody with a custody coach.This part in the series is less about a discussion with the children and more about the forthcoming exchange after my interrupted week of vacation, a mess that was detailed in Custodial Interference Can Screw Vacation Plans. During this week of phone calls in 2005, PEW tried to get the children to beg me to come home early and also told them that I had promised to bring them all the way back to her on Sunday, which simply wasn’t true. Rather than cave-in, I appropriately explained the situation to the kids as a misunderstanding, but that PEW was either going to come get them on Sunday or I would deliver them to her when I came up that following Tuesday as I had to be in town for court anyway. Still, she was relentless in trying to badger me to change my mind. (Click here to review Part 4.) [...]