The Psycho Ex Wife

74 Responses to “Job Loss/Child Support Update 8/3/2009 - Bizarre Email”

1. Kou Says:
   August 3rd, 2009 at 10:37 am

   How odd. Our PEW offered the same back when DH was fighting just to be able to see the kids…she would leave for the weekend and he was welcome to stay at her home/cesspool and take care of her five million animals.

   I really, really hope things go well for you on Friday. Keeping my fingers crossed for ya.

2. slippits21 Says:
   August 3rd, 2009 at 10:58 am

   Imagine sleeping in ‘her’ bed. Ack!! I do hope things go your way on Friday. Your in my thoughts.

   How nice of her to ‘bargain’ with you, after all it’s “In the best interest of the children”.

   I’d like to slap some sense into her.

3. ramon Says:
   August 3rd, 2009 at 11:05 am

   little jail time would do you some good. you always can find a sales job and with commission, and if you’re a motivated and ambitious worker you will make money.
   obviously you are not. grow a pair.
   the only way they would impute your income is if you weren’t doing enough searching for jobs or keeping a good enough log of it.

4. Mister-M Says:
   August 3rd, 2009 at 11:18 am

   You’re correct, Ramon. Of course, someone has to hire me first. You forgot about that obvious part.

5. Kate Says:
   August 3rd, 2009 at 11:25 am

   Of course the kids would like the idea of staying in the same place and having mom & dad move each week. I figure PEW is offering this as an option because she would then have you pay 1/2 the payment as “rent” and she would be able to keep the house that she can’t seem to afford. She is in panic mode because she knows she can’t afford to keep up her lifestyle with a cut in child support, so this is her attempt to keep things the same for her regardless of your situation. I am sure in her brain it is a wonderful idea, but we know it would never work in reality. I am sure she will bring this up at the hearing, and all you should have to say is that there are too many variables involved that would not make that a working option for you. Make sure your lawyer has a copy of the email prior to Friday.

6. Kristie Says:
   August 3rd, 2009 at 11:35 am

   Ugh. I hope things straighten out for you soon.

7. IAMGLUE Says:
   August 3rd, 2009 at 12:19 pm

   What is up with Ramon? It would be nice that if individuals are going to post such comments, they could at least appear as someone who has kept up with this blog and has a comprehension of the situation.

   I agree with you Kate - my line of thinking was the same way. PsychoSIL was paying substantially more than what PEW claimed, now she’s moved out (supposedly) and in the grand scheme of things PEW is losing that “rent” money in addition to potentially not having any child support to supplement HER lifestyle.

   Good luck Mr. M - I think we all know that a judge would not even review such a “brilliant idea” for the “best interest of the children”.

8. Ellen Says:
   August 3rd, 2009 at 12:21 pm

   I will be hoping for the best in your upcoming hearing. I am going through the EXACT same thing with my Fiance’s PEW!! We are representing ourselves since we cannot afford an attorney. Of course the can afford and will have one! I do have a question that I hope someone out there can answer: Do we have to submit evidence to the court prior to trial? We have produced to the PEW’s attorney but want to make sure that the court doesn’t need a copy prior to trial.

9. Kou Says:
   August 3rd, 2009 at 12:33 pm

   As someone who works in sales and has suffered a more than 30% drop in commissions over the last year, I had to laugh when I read Ramon’s post. When I was laid off last November, I was so desperate I was applying for anything I could find- even jobs as a nightshift dispatcher and a construction company receptionist. In the end I was fortunate enough to find an opening in my field, but if the same thing happened today I highly doubt I would be so lucky.

10. DW Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    Ramon, Bwahahahaha, work on commission, that’s great! And the court would love to hear that, seeing as how most jobs on straight commission take a few months to start seeing those “fabulous” commissions. And what type of jobs have great commissions? Car sales? Hmm, pretty crappy sales right now. Advertising? Hmmm, pretty crappy sales right now. Construction? Hmmm, pretty crappy sales right now. So, LM has to learn a NEW industry to even get a job, get up to speed, and start closing sales, and you think this is going to happen in what, 1 day? You sir, are brilliant.

11. rj Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    That IS scary. Hopefully, it occurs to PEW that Jail, loss of license, etc. makes it harder for LM to earn a living and pay her. If she is anything like my ex, she doesn’t deserve a cent.

    I also hope that Ramon is sarcastic in his comments as he sounds exactly like a PEW.

    BTW, DW forgot to suggest Real Estate sales..lol

12. Mister-M Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    RJ - It won’t. She’ll have exclusive “possession” of the children, my world will be turned upside down, and she will have “won.”

    Many times over the years I have attempted to point out to her that her actions actually negatively impact her in both the short- and long-run (and have a potentially devastating impact on the children) - and she simply does not care.

13. Caine Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    It’s all about the “win.” No matter if it harms them personally. After all, you had the (enter organ here) to finally file for divorce, eject Her/him from their comfortable existance as a lump on the couch not contributing to the household, to income, ignoring the kids completely, etc. And you had the gall to only give them 1 1/2 years of warnings! They’ll still hit you everywhere they can stick that dagger, heart, wallet, big toe… And then it’s justified, because, well, if you weren’t evil you wouldn’t be in jail would you? /end rant /end sarcasm (sorry, got a back-to-step-one support master meeting tomorrow and kinda irritated)

14. Mark Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    “little jail time would do you some good. you always can find a sales job and with commission, and if you’re a motivated and ambitious worker you will make money.”

    Actually, in the wake of hundreds of car dealerships closing and a general economic recession it is extremely unlikely you’ll find a sales job. Let alone compete successfully with experienced sales people for commissions. Hard reality is there isn’t always a job out there. But if you think it’s a great idea to send the unemployed to jail, how about instead of charging the tax payers you can personally pay for the costs out of your pocket?

15. JB Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    I’m having a hard time grasping how any judge could use “imputed income” when there is double-digit unemployment and even our esteemed President says there is no end in sight.

    One of my clients was a SAHM (and yes, dear readers, this one was a serious challenge to my personal biases), and during the divorce proceedings, her soon-to-be-ex husband did deliberately leave his $250k/year job and took a $90k/year job; and it was a blatant attempt at deliberately underemploying himself so that he would not have to pay as much (in Texas, CS plus alimony cannot exceed 50% of net pay).

    And in this economy: yep, he got away with it.

    Now the good news in this particular case is — neither party is a high-conflict personality, neither party is dealing with a personality disorder or other neuroses; luckily, I’m coaching a woman who does have all of her faculties intact… so in spite of the fact that she “got screwed” by the court system (did she? or did her husband merely successfully avoid getting screwed?) she and I were able to work together to help her discover her skills, her passion, and her career calling; and she is on a path to successfully supporting herself and her children with very little CS from him. So, good outcome, in the end.

    But I was truly amazed that the judge did not impute this guy’s income. That was a first for me. I guess these hard times are causing a lot of paradigms to shift.

16. Mark Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    What on earth is there to get away with? How on earth did we ever establish a court system that takes away the right of free citizens to do the jobs they want to do? Even if he just didn’t want to pay as much child support, so what? Do we really want to live in a country where the government has the power to tell you that you must do the job they’ve decided you can do? Sounds a bit like Stalinist Russia. What’s next, executions if the family courts catch you at the movies when they’ve decided you should be working?

17. DW Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    Mark, I so agree, and yet when you divorce, your life is run by the court. You are told how much you should make, where you should live, and even whether or not you will pay for your child’s college education. Of course if you remain married, you can quit your job at any time, go back to school if you want, or tell your kids if you want to go to college, get a loan. You can decide you can’t afford to give your child a car, or get them braces, but if you are divorced, you are forced into slavery.

18. Mister-M Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    Let’s revisit the stupidity of the entire situation regarding Psycho-SIL and her moving out. First, some points to mention that won’t surprise anyone.

    * I did not ask anyone to move out. I am not responsible for SIL moving out.

    * SIL is moving out so that PEW will not have her rental income, whatever it may be, as part of her net income calculation. This is HIDING INCOME, which is what she always accuses me of doing.

    * I want to go by the CS guidelines. She chose to litigate it so that she could find an attorney who would push to the imputation of income. Conservative legal fees estimate for PEW @ $4,000 by the time we’re all finished. Likely more.

    Now, even stupid people can make heads and tails of basic math. PEW is beyond stupid on this issue as she has been on most others involving money during this entire debacle. Set aside my desire and the fact that I would have undertaken efforts to have psycho, alcoholic, drunk-driving, unstable PEW removed from the home. For the purposes of THIS exercise, it’s not relevant.

    Legal costs to PEW = $4,000.

    Let’s operate, for the sake of using round numbers, that SIL was paying $1,000/month. The child support impact of that figure on PEW is a fraction of a fraction of the overall number. Let’s say… it’s a $100 swing.

    Assuming everything goes PEW’s way, she will pay a minimum of $4,000 in legal fees and force SIL out, losing $1,000 a month in income that, by her own words above, are critical to keeping her home.

    She is doing this so that I have to pay her $400/month and she doesn’t have to pay me $400/month.

    She could have back all her legal expenses. She could have (in theory) SIL’s rental income. She could be paying me, TEMPORARILY (until I get employment), $400/month in child support.

    DO THE MATH!

    The expenses to do what she’s doing are astronomically higher for her both short-term and long term to put us all through this than to have just accepted the guidelines without trying to have income imputed so she doesn’t have to pay child support, which is there is still a chance she’ll have to pay.

    It’s INSANITY.

19. JB Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    DW said:
    “Mark, I so agree, and yet when you divorce, your life is run by the court. You are told how much you should make, where you should live, and even whether or not you will pay for your child’s college education. Of course if you remain married, you can quit your job at any time, go back to school if you want, or tell your kids if you want to go to college, get a loan. You can decide you can’t afford to give your child a car, or get them braces, but if you are divorced, you are forced into slavery.”

    Well said, DW. As a Divorce Coach, this is often one of the first things I tell my clients (right after telling them that divorce is not going to fix any of the problems in their life). I tell people with children that the instant they file in Family Court, their children become subjects of the state. The state will now dictate where those children live, with whom, and when and with whom they will spend their time. This is permanent at least until the children turn 18 (or even longer). What a lot of people just do not understand is that initiating a divorce instantly costs them their freedom. As you noted, someone else will now tell them where they can live, how much they must earn, and how much of their earnings they will give up.

    The sad thing is, even though I am completely upfront and give full disclosure to my clients, fewer than 5% of them then go back and re-think their decision to divorce. My business is then to help them wade through hell and try to salvage enough of their dignity and self-respect that they and their children can then pick up what’s left of the pieces of their lives and recover, post-divorce.

    It’s tough. But I do it because I know that if I did not, the outcome would be even worse.

20. JB Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    Oh, PS to Mark, who asked “what did he get away with?”

    He got away with manipulating the system so that he would not have to pay as much in alimony and child support.

    And while I wholeheartedly do NOT agree that one party should sit around all fat, dumb, and happy while the other party slaves away to pay alimony and child support; in this case, it seemed wrong that this man deliberately manipulated circumstances so that he would have to pay less. Of course, the flip side of that is, this man is now living on about 1/3 of his previous income… and in this economy, he probably doesn’t stand much of a chance of getting his high-dollar job back, either. So, maybe he really didn’t “get away with” anything, now did he?

21. Mark Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 6:00 pm

    Actually, I’m well aware he beat the current system. Good for him, I’d buy him a beer if I knew who he was.

    The point is simply this: I don’t know if leaving a job just to prevent your ex from giving money makes you a bad person or not. I really don’t care. What I do care about is preventing the state from using kangroo family courts as an end run around our constitutional freedoms. Freedoms countless people have fought and died to defend. If protecting someone’s right to be an arsehole protects everyone then I’m all for it. Just as I favor protecting the right of a person to put up a Nazi flag to offend a Jewish neighbor they were having a conflict with. Not because I’m in favor of being an arse, but because it protects the rights of everyone to hold whatever political views they want. In exactly the same way, protecting the right of someone to quit a job to lower their ex’s standard of living protects the rights of all people to do what makes them happy and leave jobs that do them harm. Some will save that judges do have the authority to lower child supports, and they do, but they shouldn’t. No one should ever face the prospect of going before a judge, who’s got his eye firmly on Title IV-D money, and beg to leave a job that is stressing them into ill health with the reality that the judge has the power to tell them no. The individual, and no one else, should have the authority to decide what they’ll do and how much they’ll earn.

22. Mister-M Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    One thing is for certain, and I have no studies to back this up… this is just my opinion because it defies the laws of common sense. It defies any sense whatsoever.

    People generally do not choose to give up things like well-paying jobs, better lifestyles, cars, homes, assets, [insert whatever here]

    “JUST TO GET OUT OF PAYING CHILD SUPPORT.”

    Those that do have to be rarer than rare. Rarer than a sighting of bigfoot (I like to say).

    Except in instances such as the one I described above, where someone is too stupid to see what’s what…

    There is no point in sacrificing, for instance, $50,000 in income, you license, perhaps your freedom (jail), to get out of paying a few hundred, even a few thousand in child support.

    Even in the situation that JB describes, paying child support on $90,000 income is MORE THAN SUFFICIENT to care for a child(ren). So, even if he walked into your office and said, “I’m taking this lower paying job just to reduce my child support” - it doesn’t matter, because what he pays is more than enough.

    Now, will people hide income/assets to maximize child support (in the case of a person who receives CS) or minimize child support (in the case of a person who pays CS)? Sure, I believe that. I see that and hear that in the people with whom I interact.

    But NO ONE is going to sell me the Wall Street Executive who decided to be a fry-cook at McDonald’s “just so he didn’t have to pay child support.” Yet, people try to sell that bullshit every single day.

23. Mister-M Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    SEPARATELY… I know a whole LOTTA of people, generally women, who do NOTHING, don’t better educate themselves, don’t use existing qualifications, don’t do anything about getting a job… just so that they can keep collecting child support.

    This is especially true of women who have a new serious romantic partner or husband who makes a living. She has no motivation to go get a job. She has her new partner making a living and free money from the ex.

    That happens all the time. Men quitting their jobs or taking substantially lower paying jobs “just to get out of paying child support…” - not so much.

24. MR Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    Oh man…

    “I spoke to the kids and they said they would rather stay here during school and see you on weekends.”

    I get this all the time from the PEG. First and foremost, it is a violation of the court order to give the kids a vote in custody matters. I would cringe when I got messages like this because I could imagine the bad feelings and guilt my daughter was probably subjected to when PEG dragged her into the loyalty conflict PEG would create to get what she wanted.

    Kids will say what the pressuring parent needs to hear — “if Mommy wants this then I must want it, too. To utter any truthful feelings that conflict with what Mommy wants will put me in kid hell.”

    When there is one hostile/aggressive/alienating/scary parent, the kid will always say what that parent needs to hear. Especially when that parent is the custodial parent. Stockholm Syndrome.

    Argh, this stuff burns me up, because it’s basically child abuse.

    Good luck this week, Mister-M, on the CS matter.

25. Mister-M Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    Isn’t it great that she puts all that in writing for me just days before a court hearing? Man, I hope she never stops doing that for us.

26. JB Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    Okay, one more thought on this, and then I promise, I’ll leave it alone.

    To clarify, in the case of my client, you are correct, the lowered income of the ex-husband did not substantially reduce the CS amount. What it did was effectively eliminate any possibility of alimony.

    Now I personally do not believe in either CS or alimony. I personally believe that all parents, no matter their gender, should plan to support the people that they bring into this world. And nobody, man or woman, ought to plan out their life expecting to freeload off of someone else. Period.

    That’s why this particular client was such a doozy for me. Because what I had to recognize was that my biases exist, yes, but they do not necessarily apply in someone else’s circumstances. If this client and her then-husband had made an agreement between the two of them that he would earn a living while she “kept the home fires burning”… and if she could truly demonstrate that her efforts at home during all those years really did contribute in a non-financial way, while he was building a 1/4-million dollar career, then perhaps it made sense that she could receive a little of that back in rehabilitative alimony while she got re-immersed into the workforce and re-built a career. I wouldn’t advocate for that all the time, but I was prepared to advocate for it this particular time, because I could see it for this particular client.

    However, due to the way that her ex-husband manipulated the system, it did not happen that way.

    What did happen, instead, and what I learned, I think (still working that particular hypothesis), is that this client was fast-tracked to a “financial divorce”… that is, she was forced to eliminate any dependence on her ex-husband for her own sake. And in this case, it not only ended up benefitting her substantially in terms of her self-esteem, as well as her own career opportunities, I firmly believe that it also reduced future resentment and bitterness (here comes the hypothesis). My guess is, that people who remain dependent financially on someone else (government included? not sure) come to resent that person/entity at an extreme level. The money keeps them tied together and forces them to continue to exchange negative energy. I could be wrong about that hypothesis, I’m just noodling out loud here.

    And yes, I agree, that the family court system sucks, and a person should not be forced to quit a lucrative job just to outwit a terrible system.

    Thanks for letting us use your forum, Mister-M, not only to discover and learn more about personality disorders, not only to share experiences and commiserate; but also to explore and learn more about the family court system. You are a great resource to me, as I learn to do my work better and learn something new with each and every client.

27. Clyde Says:
    August 3rd, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    My PEW works through a temp company part time. She is a nurse full time as well.(I think she is a PCA) She switched her jobs on the attorney general paperwork to show the temp job as her main employment before mediation in order to show a substantially lower income so her CS would not be raised. Then switched it back right after. I asked my lawyer and the mediator to check because she is abviously lying but they said that CS is the least of their conserns. At the time it really was but since they didn’t actually address any of the real issues, I was pissed they didn’t at least look into it. She is paying CS based on minimum wage and is probably making about 30k a year. She lives with her DR boyfriend who is 15 years older than her in a 300K house.(Its obvious why they are together). She had a brand new car at the time and claimed she was only making 13k per year to the mediator.

28. Kate Says:
    August 4th, 2009 at 9:44 am

    I really don’t understand PEW’s thought process on all of this. It seems she is just set on what she feels is “right” and doesn’t look at what it is costing her to prove herself. Why would she spend $4000 to save herself $400? Is her principle really worth that much? What a moron.

29. Tim Says:
    August 4th, 2009 at 11:08 am

    I’ve just finished reading through the blogs about Child/Support Update. Some may have read my post under the BPD section relating to this same issue.

    I very recently encountered the same situation. I lost my job 3 years ago after being there 17 years. I earned a reasonable living but in an instant it all was gone. I’ve gone to just about every extreme trying to find stable employment elsewhere, but to no avail. My unemployment has run out and I struggle from month to month to find enough temporary work to make the bills. Then PEW decides I had to be hiding money from her, since I wasn’t living under a bridge yet, so she takes me back to court to have my child support raised. As in Mister-M’s case, the judge based my income on my potential earning ability, without even allowing me to explain what I’m doing now or prove what I have done to try and find employment. Not to mention that the income that was imputed was 6K more a year more than I’ve ever made in my life.

    After the CS amount was calculated, I was charged arrearage charges back to the time the motion was filed along with owing her more a month now than I even make. Looking forward, I don’t see how I can have anything left to my name by the time all is said and done. But looking back, I wouldn’t have thought I could have made it this far. I have a lot a faith in the man upstairs and I’ve just learned to live life one day at a time. But I am human and sometimes it wears on me a lot. It’s just so frustrating to think that one person with a personality disorder such as this, can disrupt and practically destroy so many lives. And yet the court system, since there is not physical hole from a gunshot to the head or a knife to the heart, has no time for details.

    As JB mentions, “What a lot of people just do not understand is that initiating a divorce instantly costs them their freedom.” Even though PEW is the one that filed for the divorce, accusing me of everything she had actually done to me…I did realize what the consequences would be, but I knew there were no cost that would compare with living with the PEW day in day out. I’d much rather be alone, broke, and miserable, than married to her and wished I was dead.

    And as far as Ramon goes, I’m so proud that some of us hasn’t had to encounter such problems as these. But I would suggest if he ever finds himself unemployed, if he’s not already a judge, he may want to apply there first. Sounds like he has the credentials.

30. Kathleen Says:
    August 4th, 2009 at 11:20 am

    Well, lots of discussion here… I suppose that’s good. We all have our own opinions based on our own experiences. The Courts here do try to impute income for child support, too. They impute 40 hours a week at minimum wage. I lost my job and can’t find one. I have sole physical custody of my girls since my ex chose to live in TX. Well, same thing, he’s got his slick attorney and they are spending soooo much money to fight me. I like the response about the “if you stay married you can tell your kids that they can’t go to college, get a new car (not quoting). Here in Colorado, the court won’t help you get your ex to help with college, won’t help you with an issue with the kids if they need medical care or braces. My ex gets to pay his child support and ignore everything else! It’s so strange that each state has such different laws about child support. My ex moved to Texas because (his words) work. Well, his income has mysteriously been reduced by half in the past few years. Yet he lives better than he did here. He’s self employed… he hides income or uses his wifes income (how do you spell “sugar mama”?).

    It’s just not a good situation for the kids. That’s all that matters. If we bring kids into this world, it’s our responsibility as adults to find a way to raise them. Someone needs to tell my ex that. Not only is he being an ass about child support, he is now being an ass emotionally with the kids and crushing their self esteem.

    I am probably not making any sense… I am just so sick of my ongoing battle, like Mister-M’s, with these ex’s who are manipulative, passive-aggressive and just plain vindictive because they are selfish! and Stupid!

    My ex is now telling my daughter he can’t pay for helping her with a car for transportation for college because he had to pay his attorney $6,300 to fight me in court. I don’t have an attorney… so who is the one fighting?

    arghhhh!

    It doesn’t matter who is the custodial parent, who works, who does what… the children are the ones that really “pay” for all of this adult fighting. It’s crap!

    I owe my ex 500 bucks by 8/6/09 for some attorney fees since I took him to Court for contempt and lost (that’s why he owes his attorney $6,300, he fought me tooth and nail for medical expenses he still owes me). I cna’t pay that as I just had to send $200 bucks deposit for my duaghter’s college.

    So, I won’t be able to pay that to my ex until child support comes from him. And, I turn around and pay that $500 out of child support back to my ex. I don’t care what happens. At this point, I have been in jail due to my ex and his games. I wouldn’t mind going back. Then, maybe my ex would HAVE to deal with helping his daughter get to college and it wouldn’t be my WHOLE responsibility, again, this year!!! My ex NEVER visited his child during her first year of college last year! This from a man who refuses to help me with raising the kids yet fights me tooth and nail about everything else… Only if it’s related to money. I gave up maintenance to the tune of $180k so my ex would get off my back. It’s all about money for one party of a divorce, isn’t it???? Well, look in to a child’s eyes… you don’t see that! I would rather live in a pop up camper than be like my ex who lives in a million dollar home and is the one whining about money!

    thanks for letting me spew!

31. MR Says:
    August 4th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    My PEG is quite outrageous when it comes to finances. When I met her, she was making about $80K in today’s dollars as an office manager. Bachelor’s degree. But I later found out that her father pulled strings to get her into and through college, and land her that job managing a small group of graphic artists. She had never really worked for or earned anything in her life. In fact, typical of the red flags that were going up in the first months of our relationship was that she bought most of her groceries at Chevron, because Daddy gave her a gas card and never inquired. Oh, used the Chevron card to fill up the car Daddy gave her, too.

    Shortly after she met me, she quit that $80K job (she would say later that I forced her to quit — total BS, I told her she was nuts to quit). Shortly later (after multiple failed attempts by me to extricate myself from the relationship) she was pregnant. I had known her for less than a year at that point. I was to be a never-married Dad. This was back in 1995.

    Anyway — before he died in 2002, PEG’s Daddy bought her a big 3 bed 2 bath single family in SoCal — worth about a half mil today according to Zillow.com. On all income/expense declarations she claimed she was “renting” the place from her parents for $1800/month while making close to nothing in income. For years she claimed this, despite the numbers not crunching at all — there was simply no possible way she was living the lifestyle she was on only my $1000/month CS and no other income. Clearly she was being subsidized.

    Well, she finally decided the $1000/month was not enough CS and filed for a modification. That was when the gloves came off. I’d had enough of this chicanery. I demanded rental receipts, records, and tax returns from her landlord/mother.

    As I’ve mentioned on here before, my case has been drawn out so long that the landlord/mother died before we could get her into court to answer questions about the “rental” arrangements. Needless to say, the only records they ever produced was a “rental agreement” that was obviously drawn up and backdated after I’d subpoena’ed their records. No receipts, canceled checks, tax returns, nothing. It was all a lie — she lives of her parents and my CS. I already knew that, but it was time to get it on the record.

    Now, because PEG has delayed the case so long that witnesses are dying, I’ve demanded a copy of Grandma’s will. There is evidence that a trust has been created for daughter, and yet Mom remains in arrears to the orthodontist, therapist, and is demanding I pay minor’s counsel fees, all therapist fees, and all attorney’s fees.

    It’s all crumbling down around her now that Mommy and Daddy aren’t there to subsidize her.

    How does this affect daughter? I’m sure it’s not helping. PEG is clearly under much stress because things aren’t working out like she’d planned. And all of this may sound insensitive, but if you’ve been an NCP with a BPD, or on the receiving end of aggressive discovery with a PEG/PEW/PEH/PEB, then you understand that turnabout is one of the only options for survival. PEG has made it clear she’ll destroy me (and daughter) for a dime, and I have to protect the assets of my wife, my daughter, and me. Daughter also needs to see that trying to make a living on the backs of others leads only to misery. She learns that from PEG. From Dad and step-Mom she learns that dedication to career and honesty opens up doors in life, giving you choices, freedom, and a clear conscience.

    PEG’s lies will be revealed and hopefully the judge will not take kindly to the deception. I’ve finally got an attorney who is PEG’s match, and has seen this sh*t a thousand times and knows exactly how to pull back the covers.

    Here’s a thought that has been intriguing me: If the court grants me sole legal custody of daughter, I think it might be possible that I’ll have a say, at least, in the administration of that trust left by PEG’s mother. Wow, wouldn’t that be the ultimate? PEG will go absolutely bonkers.

    August 26 cannot come soon enough.

    MR

32. Mark Says:
    August 4th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    “Well, lots of discussion here… I suppose that’s good. We all have our own opinions based on our own experiences. The Courts here do try to impute income for child support, too. They impute 40 hours a week at minimum wage.”

    This is only done when one side cannot prove another income for the slave, er ah, I mean NCP.

    “I lost my job and can’t find one. I have sole physical custody of my girls since my ex chose to live in TX. Well, same thing, he’s got his slick attorney and they are spending soooo much money to fight me.”

    Then you’re not living up to your obligation to finanically support your children, that doesn’t mean your ex now owes you a living. I hope his attorney does a great job defending his right not to have to support YOU.

    “I like the response about the “if you stay married you can tell your kids that they can’t go to college, get a new car (not quoting). Here in Colorado, the court won’t help you get your ex to help with college, won’t help you with an issue with the kids if they need medical care or braces.”

    It’s great that the state of Colorado is among those that cannot order college tutition absent an agreement. That’s simply untrue about the medical issues, CO (like most states), sticks the NCP with insurance and medical bills when they legally can.

    “Well, his income has mysteriously been reduced by half in the past few years. Yet he lives better than he did here. He’s self employed… he hides income or uses his wifes income (how do you spell “sugar mama”?).”

    It’s called a global recession, perhaps you’ve heard of it? His wife has no obligation to support your children, or you as that is what this is clearly about.

    “It’s just not a good situation for the kids. That’s all that matters. If we bring kids into this world, it’s our responsibility as adults to find a way to raise them. Someone needs to tell my ex that.”

    The child-centric drivel aside, the only one here who isn’t finanically supporting the children is you.

    “Not only is he being an ass about child support, he is now being an ass emotionally with the kids and crushing their self esteem.”

    I thought you just said he ignored the children?

    “I am probably not making any sense… I am just so sick of my ongoing battle, like Mister-M’s, with these ex’s who are manipulative, passive-aggressive and just plain vindictive because they are selfish! and Stupid!”

    Sounds more like you’re upset that your ex doesn’t have to pay to support you.

    “My ex is now telling my daughter he can’t pay for helping her with a car for transportation for college because he had to pay his attorney $6,300 to fight me in court. I don’t have an attorney… so who is the one fighting?”

    Then I would suggest your daughter find a job and pay for her own car, like the adult she is, or get fimilar with RTD.

    “It doesn’t matter who is the custodial parent, who works, who does what… the children are the ones that really “pay” for all of this adult fighting. It’s crap!”

    Children are hostages to the circumstances of their parents. That’s life, and childhood is a very short part of it. They’ll have their entire adult lives to make their own decisions.

    “I owe my ex 500 bucks by 8/6/09 for some attorney fees since I took him to Court for contempt and lost (that’s why he owes his attorney $6,300, he fought me tooth and nail for medical expenses he still owes me). I cna’t pay that as I just had to send $200 bucks deposit for my duaghter’s college.”

    Then tell your daughter she need to finance her own college education. Why on earth do some people actually believe that ADULTS are owed a college education? You know how I went to college? I enlisted in the Army, your daughter could go that route. She could take out loans, public or private. She could hunt down grant and scholarship money. The fact is students that pay for their own education take it more seriously and succeed at a higher rate. That you are making the CHOICE to create a finanical hardship for yourself is no one’s problem but yours. Equally, don’t file contempt charges when you have a losing case.

    “So, I won’t be able to pay that to my ex until child support comes from him. And, I turn around and pay that $500 out of child support back to my ex. And, I turn around and pay that $500 out of child support back to my ex.”

    So he’s the once that’s victimizing the children, but you’re the one that needs to use child support money to pay losses stimming from a failed contempt suit?

    “I don’t care what happens. At this point, I have been in jail due to my ex and his games. I wouldn’t mind going back. Then, maybe my ex would HAVE to deal with helping his daughter get to college and it wouldn’t be my WHOLE responsibility, again, this year!!!”

    It’s not your responsiblity, you are choosing to do it. Your daughter is an ADULT now, she needs to finance her own education. No one owes her a college education and if it’s want she really wants then she’ll find a way to make it happen.

33. Schottsax Says:
    August 4th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    I went through these “master recommendations” before. They were all shit….every last one of them. They always recommended the most $ possible for PEW…..numerous mis-statements and mis-characterizations, picking and choosing which “facts” to include….mathematical mistakes in calculations….pure fantasy….simple reasoning….added pressure on you to settle at as high of a number as they can get.

    The Family Court is not worried one iota about whether your kids are getting supported…they are not worried one iota about what your kids actually “need”…they are not worried one iota about your happiness or freedom or rights…..simple reasoning, the more they collect the more they get paid….the more money they have for the people they care about…the people they work with everyday and their own families.

    Biased, Outrageous, Unfair, Not What The Law Says….yep and as long as they getting money from you they don’t give a rats ass what you think, say, or do. They have their hands over their ears chanting…..”shut up and pay!, shut up and pay! shut up and pay!”

34. Ann Zuccardy Says:
    August 4th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    From an earlier comment: “SEPARATELY… I know a whole LOTTA of people, generally women, who do NOTHING, don’t better educate themselves, don’t use existing qualifications, don’t do anything about getting a job… just so that they can keep collecting child support.”

    I would add alimony to that too! (I think they call it rehabilitative alimony that’s supposed to be for the purpose giving the woman time to get on her feet financially, but honestly, it’s just another way to bilk the system and the ex.) There seems to be no motivation for well educated, well qualified women to support themselves in the state where I live. The courts are so clogged up with these silly cases of inflated senses of entitlement, that the real hardship cases are delayed over and over and that breaks my heart. The people who are suffering most are those who have lost jobs and have real deadbeat parenting issues. Makes me sick.

    I have not had to deal with the court system in my divorce but, I watch my husband go through it with his ex. I’ve watched at least 2 other male friends go through it and I find myself gasping in disbelief with each new story.

    I want to write an magazine feature or a book about the family court system in my state. Don’t even know where to start…or if it would cause problems for my husband in the incestuous family court system to attach my name to such a piece of prose.

35. Mister-M Says:
    August 4th, 2009 at 6:55 pm

    Oh, I neglected to mention, we receive in the mail, yet ANOTHER Master’s “recommendation.” This one recommends that my petition for CS be dismissed. It recommends PEW’s petition for an increase be dismissed. It recommends that I keep paying exactly what I’m paying now for the foreseeable future.

    *crazyrolleyes*

36. Kathleen Says:
    August 4th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    wow! Mark, thanks for the input. However, you really have no clue what I have been through.

    Here in Colorado, the Courts impute income for both parties. It’s a 50/50 state. Everything is split 50/50, debt, visitation, parenting, everything!

    As you said, hard to find a job right now due to the recession. And, since I haven’t worked in 18 years, hard to place someone like me, who doesn’t have a college degree as well. I was working for Starbucks, but they shut down a ton of stores and laid off a lot of employees. Guess what? I was carrying the health insurance for my girls! I did this to save my ex money since he’s self employed.n I am the one paying those medical bills. Because of all the stress my ex inflicts on my older daughter, I am paying for 3 emergency visits and more… who are you to talk about NCP and all that! In Colorado, the parent who has physical custody has to responsibility of everything and then we have to kindly ask the other parent to reimburse us. In fact, in Colorado, the custodial parent pays the first $250 for EACH child for medical expenses. You should really check your facts before spewing about us mom’s who are there for our children! And, not off with a 4th wife! Sound bitter, okay, so I am!!! bwahahahah! I’m also menopausal and prolly pms’ing!

    I pawned by 13K diamond for 2K so my older daughter could attend a service project through school. Her dad wouldn’t respond to my daughter’s request for assistance.

    I am living up to my financial obligation… at least, until I lost my job. As you say, the economy basically sucks right now. However, I am not the one that needs supporting, financially! I just want what is right for our children… OUR children! This has nothing to do with me. In fact, I got maintenance of about $2k per month, that I thought was pretty good. Guess what? I relieved my ex of that as he is so mean and nasty that I couldn’t breath without my ex filing trumped up charges against me. Even after the false domestic violence charges that got thrown out of court… however, only after a wonderful stay of 24 hours in Jail and after my 13 year old daughter witnessed me violently being arrested for these alleged domestic violence charges.

    In Colorado, when a domestic violence call is made to the Sheriff or Police, ONE person goes to jail. That’s the law! Unfortunately, since I was cooperative - invited these men into my home for coffee (it was 10 p.m.), I got jumped outside and handcuffed and hauled in a cop car while my 13 year old daughter watched!

    I don’t need a “living” from my ex and don’t want it. I relieved my ex of $180k… Yep, $180K!!! That’s what he would have paid for the 6 years of maintenance I was awarded by a Judge. 18 years of marriage!

    “The child-centric drivel aside, the only one here who isn’t finanically supporting the children is you.”

    You have no clue… thank goodness. Do you have kids? Apparently, you must have an ex that you think is milking you… why can’t I email you? I have a blog… you can go post all you want there… However, here is not the place to get your anger out on others that are simply expressing an opinion…

    “Not only is he being an ass about child support, he is now being an ass emotionally with the kids and crushing their self esteem.”

    I thought you just said he ignored the children?

    ““I am probably not making any sense… I am just so sick of my ongoing battle, like Mister-M’s, with these ex’s who are manipulative, passive-aggressive and just plain vindictive because they are selfish! and Stupid!”

    Sounds more like you’re upset that your ex doesn’t have to pay to support you.”

    Once again, I am not in need of being supported by my ex. You kidding me! My ex is being supported by his wife. My ex is so in debt that he can’t support himself. It’s all about ego for him!

    My story must bug the crap out of you because someone must upset you! Tell us more! That’s what blogs are all about. I hope you went to mine… Spew there. Go ahead, but don’t hide. Tell us who you are and share your story. It’s all good!!!!

    “My ex is now telling my daughter he can’t pay for helping her with a car for transportation for college because he had to pay his attorney $6,300 to fight me in court. I don’t have an attorney… so who is the one fighting?”

    “Then I would suggest your daughter find a job and pay for her own car, like the adult she is, or get fimilar with RTD.”

    Unfortunately, RTD is not available… otherwise, I would. We live in a rural area. My daughter is going to find a job as she is going to finally tell her dad that she won’t be visiting him in Texas and he will have to come see her as she will be working… You can criticize me all you want, but until you know the whole story, how can you be so nasty. Wow! You must be divorced and still single! Ouch! How does that feel?

    ““It doesn’t matter who is the custodial parent, who works, who does what… the children are the ones that really “pay” for all of this adult fighting. It’s crap!”

    Children are hostages to the circumstances of their parents. That’s life, and childhood is a very short part of it. They’ll have their entire adult lives to make their own decisions.”

    You are right… so what’s the nastiness against me about? However, what children learn as a child molds them as adults! Children of divorce continue the cycle. That’s not right! call me old fashioned, but I don’t want my girls thinking that it’s “normal” for families to be so dysfunctional!

    ““I owe my ex 500 bucks by 8/6/09 for some attorney fees since I took him to Court for contempt and lost (that’s why he owes his attorney $6,300, he fought me tooth and nail for medical expenses he still owes me). I can’t pay that as I just had to send $200 bucks deposit for my daughter’s college.”

    Then tell your daughter she need to finance her own college education. Why on earth do some people actually believe that ADULTS are owed a college education? You know how I went to college? I enlisted in the Army, your daughter could go that route. She could take out loans, public or private. She could hunt down grant and scholarship money. The fact is students that pay for their own education take it more seriously and succeed at a higher rate. That you are making the CHOICE to create a finanical hardship for yourself is no one’s problem but yours. Equally, don’t file contempt charges when you have a losing case.

    wow! are you really who you say you are? Or do you hide under my ex’s name???? ha!!!!

    “So, I won’t be able to pay that to my ex until child support comes from him. And, I turn around and pay that $500 out of child support back to my ex. And, I turn around and pay that $500 out of child support back to my ex.”

    So he’s the once that’s victimizing the children, but you’re the one that needs to use child support money to pay losses stimming from a failed contempt suit?

    I have sacrificed so much for my kids… let’s see my ex lives in a million dollar home and claims poverty… yeah, that’s justice!

    Mark, I would love to chat more, but I don’t want to take up time here… you can email me anytime. I love the banter… yep, we all have our opinions and life stories. Respect… that’s what we learn… compassion and respect… yep!!! At least, I know my girls have learned from life lessons! Love with all you have… money can’t buy love!!!

37. JB Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 8:31 am

    Oh, my feminist bias is showing here…

    “Eighteen years out of the work force” ??

    That’s exactly what I’m talking about.

    Kids go to school at age 5. After that, married women have ALL DAY LONG to –

    – go back to work
    – go back to school
    – get credentialed
    – do volunteer work in their career field to keep their skills current
    – network

    And instead, they — geez, I don’t know, I’ve never ever sat around expecting someone else to just pay my bills for me — so I really have no earthly idea what a SAHM does all day… and please don’t say “cooking, cleaning, blah, blah, blah”, because that’s what us working folks do in the evenings, after a long hard day of WORK.

    What would you expect a MAN to do, if the kids were in school and nobody needed to watch them? Yes, that’s right, if a MAN were sitting around the house all day, waiting for the kids to come home, we would call him LAZY, a DEADBEAT, a LOSER… that’s what we would say about a MAN. If a MAN were to get divorced after sitting on his ass for eighteen years, and then the best job he could get was Starbucks, we would consider that pathetic. (Really, Kathleen?? Starbucks?? and how was it, hanging with all of those young kids who were — oh my! — working their way through college… guess they didn’t have vindictive Mommies to go after the Daddy for the college tuition, so they figured out for themselves how to pay for college.)

    Oh, I hate to be so sarcastic here, but come on, ladies, come on! Did I really burn my bra back in 1974 so that 35 years later I could hear all this whining? Did I really fight to be the first woman hired as a crew chief on my crew; did I really have to endure the words “You did a fine job, JB, and you deserve the promotion, but, well, this MAN as a family to support”; did I really spend almost three decades in a male-dominated career (aerospace) where 9 times out of 10 I was the only woman in the meeting… did I really do all that, so that women like Kathleen could piss and moan because after freeloading off her husband for eighteen years, she couldn’t manage to keep the gravy-train running?

    Oh, and Kathleen, since I am calling you out, let me just point out one other glaring inconsistency: you claim that your ex-husband is the one doing all the fighting, yet YOU are the one that hauled him into court on an unsupportable contempt charge.

    Now, just to reconcile my own “inconsistency”… you may be wondering how I could feel the way I feel, and still manage my client, the SAHM whose husband deliberately underemployed himself. And I will allow that each case is different. But this I can say about my client: she did not sit on her ass for eighteen years. Prior to the divorce, she home-schooled four children… a choice that both she and her (now ex-) husband had agreed to. She worked hard to network with other home-schooling families, as well as the public and private schools in her area, so that she could coordinate the teaching of subjects and extra-curricular activities that she was not personally qualified to teach. She traded lessons in her area of specialty, and she remained fairly current in her field in order to teach her children better. So no, she was not sitting around on her ass. If she had been, I am pretty sure I would not have been able to take her as a client, because I would not have been able to force myself to advocate for her; just as I could never force myself to advocate for the Kathleens of this world to continue their attitude of entitlement.

    And Kathleen… if you are still reading… if you would take all of the energy you have squandered on bitching about your ex-husband, and channel it toward getting better qualifications; and if you would use this opportunity to teach your children about the virtues of hard work, ingenuity, and people skills — rather than modeling for them an attitude of entitlement and bitching, and man-hating — then all of you will come out way further ahead.

    And I believe with all my heart that this is what happened for my client. Yes, her ex-husband manipulated the system. Yes, I was extremely surprised that he was able to, given the huge bias against men doing that very thing. But in the end, my client was able to enjoy the emotional benefit of standing on her own. People like Kathleen should try it. It’s worth all the money in the world.

38. crazyophelia Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 9:25 am

    I read the latest post on Kathleen’s blog…and I am appalled. And more than a bit confused

    This woman has the nerve to whine about how her ex doesn’t support her (oh, and her kids), and that’s she’s being forced to work for Starbucks, yet somehow she found the money to send her daughter to a $10,000/yr private high school?

    The blog post also goes into detail about getting her daughter enrolled for college. Here’s a thought - how about you let your DAUGHTER worry about that, since SHE’S the one who’s going? Why on earth is this Kathleen’s concern? Kathleen is setting her daughter up for failure by doing all this for her - her daughter WILL NOT take school as seriously. If your child really wants to go to college, make THEM do the leg work! If you want to help your child pay for college, go for it - but make sure they’ve exhausted all avenues for possible free money first. I for one will not be putting out any money for college expenses for my daughter unless she puts in substantial effort in trying to fund it herself first - and if we can even afford to help her when the time comes!

    And speaking of college…why don’t YOU go back to school, Kathleen? I’m sure since you’re a ‘poor, single mom with no bachelor’s degree’ that you could get grants up the wazoo. But then, this would be a step towards self-sufficiency, and you wouldn’t be able to whine about the raw deal life dealt you.

    Honestly, I will never understand why ex-spouses feel entitled to any money from the other spouse. I, for one, would never EXPECT anyone else to support me or my kids. In fact, I wouldn’t even have kids in the first place unless I was sure I could take care of them by myself someday, if it was necessary - because you never know what life might throw at you. If my ex-spouse can’t (or doesn’t want to) send money to support our kids - then I don’t want it anyway. I wouldn’t want money that I could only get by extortion.

    But then, maybe that’s just me.

39. rj Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 9:54 am

    Thank you to all of you who don’t understand the concept of alimony because I don’t either (Kathleen, this is a general statement, not one aimed towards you and your situation).
    My ex wants alimony of $300.00 monthly because I make more. She ignores the fact that I used my company’s benefit to go back to school, had excellent attendance, and worked my ass off for my promotions, while she called in sick frequently, went on disability almost every year since we were married, and was fired or forced out of each job.
    The kicker is I have custody of our only child. I have been advised to just pay it since it’s only for 2 years, is tax deductable, and cheaper than fighting in court.
    Can someone make sense of all of this?

40. WTF Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    JB wrote:
    Oh, I hate to be so sarcastic here, but come on, ladies, come on! Did I really burn my bra back in 1974 so that 35 years later I could hear all this whining?

    Don’t expect a thank you from me. You did that for you, not me because I didn’t want it. I would be happier being a Suzy Homemaker and worrying about my family; then worrying about stupid spreadsheets and other crap I don’t care about. To each his own, right!!!!

41. Dawn Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    wow … i don’t have a dog in this fight at all… i’m actually quite lucky with the relationship i have with my ex. i work full-time - have always worked full-time even before my daughter was born. i couldn’t imagine life not working. i provide for my daughter and because i do make pretty good money, i LOWERED - i repeat - I LOWERED the CS amount XH was supposed to be paying. my daughter does not suffer, she is told “no” when something is too expensive, etc. i am perfectly capable of working and providing for my daughter.

    so, i guess i’m bragging a bit to say there are a few of us X-wives who are considerate and realize it TAKES THE RESPONSIBILITY OF BOTH PARENTS to raise a child.

    too bad most other ex-wives don’t see that.

42. Mark Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    “wow! Mark, thanks for the input. However, you really have no clue what I have been through.”

    Sounds like everything you’ve been through is the result of foolish decision making.

    “Here in Colorado, the Courts impute income for both parties. It’s a 50/50 state. Everything is split 50/50, debt, visitation, parenting, everything!”

    Imputed incomes based on minimum wage occur when another income cannot be proven. Colorado, nor any other state, uses a joint physical custody model as a standard model at this time.

    “As you said, hard to find a job right now due to the recession. And, since I haven’t worked in 18 years, hard to place someone like me, who doesn’t have a college degree as well. I was working for Starbucks, but they shut down a ton of stores and laid off a lot of employees. Guess what? I was carrying the health insurance for my girls! I did this to save my ex money since he’s self employed.n I am the one paying those medical bills. Because of all the stress my ex inflicts on my older daughter, I am paying for 3 emergency visits and more… who are you to talk about NCP and all that! In Colorado, the parent who has physical custody has to responsibility of everything and then we have to kindly ask the other parent to reimburse us. In fact, in Colorado, the custodial parent pays the first $250 for EACH child for medical expenses. You should really check your facts before spewing about us mom’s who are there for our children! And, not off with a 4th wife! Sound bitter, okay, so I am!!! bwahahahah! I’m also menopausal and prolly pms’ing!”

    So you made the decision to sit on your ass and let someone else pay your bills for 18 years and you expect what exactly? I’m sorry you made bad decisions, but they are YOUR bad decisions. When the marriage ended your ex no longer had to support you. You knew when you got married divorce, or the death of a spouse, is always a possiblity and still made foolish choices.
    Your ex is paying child support, logically that includes some money for medical bills. Which is why the $250 buffer was established. A lot of self employed people make due without medical insurance, such is life. Equally, stress is never a reason to go the ER. It’s no wonder you got stuck with bills for unneccessary ER trips. The only person you have to be bitter at is yourself, stop making foolish choices.

    “I pawned by 13K diamond for 2K so my older daughter could attend a service project through school. Her dad wouldn’t respond to my daughter’s request for assistance.”

    That is perhaps the dumbest thing I have EVER heard. The non-foolish decision in this situation would have been to tell your daughter, “I’m sorry but we don’t have the money for this right now. I know it’s dissapointing but that’s how life is.” Dad doesn’t owe her 2k for school vacations, and that’s what those “service projects” are and neither do you.

    “I am living up to my financial obligation… at least, until I lost my job. As you say, the economy basically sucks right now. However, I am not the one that needs supporting, financially! I just want what is right for our children… OUR children!”

    Funny thing is while you aren’t living up to your obligations no one does anything to you. If the NCP doesn’t they will be hounded and possibly imprisoned by CSE. Anyone else detecting a doublestandard here.
    No, you want more money out of your ex because you don’t have a job. He shouldn’t be burnded for your bad choices.

    “I don’t need a “living” from my ex and don’t want it. I relieved my ex of $180k… Yep, $180K!!! That’s what he would have paid for the 6 years of maintenance I was awarded by a Judge. 18 years of marriage!”

    Wow, you should get an award or something…..

    “You have no clue… thank goodness. Do you have kids? Apparently, you must have an ex that you think is milking you… why can’t I email you? I have a blog… you can go post all you want there… However, here is not the place to get your anger out on others that are simply expressing an opinion…”

    Nope, no kids and no greedy ex like you. Don’t need to go through those things to sympathize with people that get shaken down by the system.

    “Once again, I am not in need of being supported by my ex. You kidding me! My ex is being supported by his wife. My ex is so in debt that he can’t support himself. It’s all about ego for him!”

    So you’re upset that someone that doesn’t have money doesn’t have any to be fleeced of, and you can’t get access to his wife’s money. What a peice of work.

    “Unfortunately, RTD is not available… otherwise, I would. We live in a rural area. My daughter is going to find a job as she is going to finally tell her dad that she won’t be visiting him in Texas and he will have to come see her as she will be working… You can criticize me all you want, but until you know the whole story, how can you be so nasty. Wow! You must be divorced and still single! Ouch! How does that feel?”

    Well then she can find a job and relocate to a less rural area with services like busses. It’s not dad’s job to provide for another ADULT. Again, don’t need to have a greedy ex or be single to realize that adults need to support themselves. The only thing your actions are making your daughter is someone like you, unable to support themselves and unable to realize that other people don’t owe them anything.

    “You are right… so what’s the nastiness against me about? However, what children learn as a child molds them as adults! Children of divorce continue the cycle. That’s not right! call me old fashioned, but I don’t want my girls thinking that it’s “normal” for families to be so dysfunctional!”

    Human beings are not animals bound to instinct and experience. Your daughter should be able to realize that these circumstances aren’t the best. However, they are becoming qutie the norm these days.

    “wow! are you really who you say you are? Or do you hide under my ex’s name???? ha!!!!”

    Yeah, must be a real wild notion that adults should pay for their own educations. Couldn’t be more than one person that thinks that way…..

    “I have sacrificed so much for my kids… let’s see my ex lives in a million dollar home and claims poverty… yeah, that’s justice!”

    His wife earns the income to have such a home and wants him there, so yeah, that is justice. Nothing stopped you from working and earning your own way save for your desire not to have to do so. So yeah, it’s justice where you are as well.

    “At least, I know my girls have learned from life lessons! Love with all you have… money can’t buy love!!!”

    Sounds like your girls don’t know anything but entitlement.

43. Mark Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    “so, i guess i’m bragging a bit to say there are a few of us X-wives who are considerate and realize it TAKES THE RESPONSIBILITY OF BOTH PARENTS to raise a child.

    too bad most other ex-wives don’t see that.”

    It really is too bad. Because while the ex is waging war for as much dosh as she can get the courts to take out of the paychecks you’ve got the kids learning that they are entitled to anything and everything, even long after childhood has ended.

44. JB Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    And again, the double standard.

    “Suzy Homemaker” thinks she has a right to choose out of supporting herself. She thinks this “right” was granted to her automatically… and people like me — who have sacrificed personally for equal rights for ALL — did not do anything to benefit her.

    Right.

    So where is “Sam Homemaker”? Let’s see what WTF thinks of a MAN who chooses to … let’s see, what was the phrase? oh yeah “worry about his family” instead “spreadsheets”. Because of course, it has never occurred to WTF that people out there — men and women, do both: they WORK for a living, AND they take care of their families. It’s not nearly as challenging as the Suzy Homemakers out their like to pretend it is.

    Let’s examine the double standard of bitter Kathleen, who somehow finds it extremely disturbing that her ex-husband is (supposedly) living off the income of his wife; that’s right, how awful that a MAN is living off the income of a WOMAN… but reverse the roles (for eighteen years, in Kathleen’s case), and that’s okay. Not only is that ‘okay’, but Kathleen believes that she should be allowed to continue this entitlement, even after she and her spouse have divorced.

    This is the inequality that I wholeheartedly rail against.

    This is the inequality that costs women like me — who do go out and “worry about their family”, while also earning a living and supporting myself and the children that I brought into this world — we lose credibility in the workplace, we lose advancement opportunities, we remain stuck earning about 70 cents on the dollar compared to men. Why? Because women like Kathleen and WTF set a standard out there that dictates that it’s okay to just up and opt out of responsible adulthood. Because even though most companies are savvy enough to never say it out loud, they still look at a young married man as high-potential… after all, if he’s got a family to support, he’s going to take his career seriously… and they look at a young woman, especially once they get married, as very likely headed right out the door. And, because after eighteen years of sitting on their asses, women like Kathleen and WTF (oh, sorry, WTF, I don’t actually know what posture you assume while you are “worrying about your family instead of spreadsheets”), are unemployable. No company is going to hire them (okay, except Starbucks, evidently).

    So no, I didn’t do what I did — back then, or ever since, or even now — for thanks. I did it because there was a wrongness in the world — against both men and women. There still is. Biases abound, don’t they?

45. Kathleen Says:
    August 5th, 2009 at 10:46 pm

    wow, attack me… and again, you have no clue what my life was like. I didn’t sit on my ass. My ex wanted me home to support him and his career and to raise your kids. Just because we chose the old fashioned roles, doesn’t give you a right to call me lazy or sit on my ass. I did everything around the house, from cleaning, to mowing 7 acres, to everything. We renovated our home from 2500 sf to 4500 sq feet. I was general contractor and more. I have to laugh because I could go back to school and get a job. This isn’t about my earnings. I don’t need the money from my ex and I am not asking for more money.

    And, you are wrong. Child support in Colorado is not like you say. It’s based on the number of days/nights a child lives with the parent. I have sole custody as the klds spend more than 275 days a year with me.

    Stop dissing on us woman who aren’t even old enough to be around when bras were being burned. I never cared for equal rights. I support moms staying home to raise their kids. I volunteered in the schools and the community. You have no right to rip me apart the way you have.

    So… keep going! Keep attacking me and WTF for supporting our family at home and where WE feel we want to. My ex wanted me home. We have two amazing girls. I just want my ex to be more than a phone call here and there in their lives. Is that wrong? This is not about money for me. It’s about the way my ex handles it all.

    comments?

    I am sure you have them! wow! Nice people. See if I open my heart. My blog is my blog. You don’t have to read it… you certainly don’t have to agree with it.

    I am not whining or asking for sympathy. I am like Mister M here and just trying to be there for others that may be in the same situation. Apparently, you are NOT!

46. Mark Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 3:17 am

    All you do here, and on your blog, is whine about what your ex won’t pay for, how jealous you are of his life style, or how you have to do things your ADULT daughter should be doing for herself. Because an adult who can’t be bothered to work out her own finanical aid is obviously really serious about college. I humped a rifle in the fires of hell, ie the middle of August at Ft. Hood Texas to go. Your daughter can’t be bothered to pick up a phone. And you, as the greedy entitled ex, can’t see what your sense of entitlement has done to your kids. Equally funny in a white trash sort of way is the whining about money in one breath and talking about your booze in the next. Pray tell, if you’re some damn unemployed and broke, how exactly are you affording wine?

47. Kathleen Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 7:50 am

    Too funny… you just don’t listen. I am not the one here with issues… I don’t want money from my ex. I want him to physically participate in his children’s lives. That doesn’t take money.

    I am not broke, lazy or whatever you want to call me. I do work and support my family.

    wow!

48. crazyophelia Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 9:48 am

    Kathleen - in your FIRST comment, you stated “I lost my job and can’t find one.” Now you say that you “do work and support my family”. Which is it?

    The problem is not that we don’t listen - it’s that we’re listening perhaps better than you expected. Your story is full of contradictions, and folks on this site have been dealing with exes that are nothing but a walking contradiction for years, so we’re a bit more attuned to picking them out.

    If you want sympathy from us on your life’s ‘raw deal’, then you need to get your story straight. Do you want your ex to ‘physically participate’, or do you want him to send the ‘generous $5000 that he gave (your daughter) last year’ that you mentioned in your blog - which contradicts the statement ‘I don’t want money from my ex’ in your last comment.

    And lastly - I don’t condemn people for their lifestyle choices. You chose to be a stay at home mom because you were married to someone who made that lifestyle choice possible. Most of us don’t have that luxury - most of us have to do “everything around the house, from cleaning, to mowing 7 acres, to everything” AND WORK. So yes, your choice appears lazy to those of us who have to do both. However, I would not have any issue with it if you weren’t complaining about your life the way it is now. This is the way most people have to live - just deal with it, and stop complaining.

49. Kate Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 10:10 am

    Kathleen - you have stumbled on a place where fathers have been forced out of the lives of their children, and forced to pay outrageous amounts of money to ex’s who refuse to support themselves, let alone use that money for the kids. Many fathers are being forced to give more money than they can possibly earn, let alone live on what remains. You do have valid issues of a father not involved with his children, but the financial issues you have mentioned has really got under the skin of those of us dealing with the situation I mentioned. My DH has 2 kids he tries to see as often as possible. His ex stayed home with the kids not because he wanted her to, but because she refused to work and got herself fired from every job she had. She continues to not work, more than 6 years since he left her. She gets her hair done about once a month, yet the kids don’t have enough clothes to get through a week. If we buy clothes for his kids, his ex throws them away or sells them at resale shop. My DH, like MANY fathers, has to watch his hard earned money being uses for his ex to get pedicures while his kids wear rags. The system doesn’t work for the kids, period.

    For your situation, I suggest you and your daughter accept her father for who he is. You are not going to be able to change him, so your best option is to accept him as he is and live your lives as you see fit. As an adult, your daughter now has the choice whether or not she wants him in her life. If he is not providing what is court ordered, then you have legal options. If he is not providing what you feel is a morale obligation, you will never get past it until you let it go. My ex does not contribute to my kids beyond the court ordered support. I feel as a parent he should assist with other things financially, physically and emotionally, but he doesn’t. Since there is not a court order for him to be a good father, there is nothing I can do about it except help my kids to accept him for what he is. We do not count on him for anything, and we are not disappointed. A good counselor once told me to think of him as only being capable of doing anything, so his capacity is not beyond what he does. He is not capable of being the kind of father I want for my kids, so I need to accept that and help my kids grow with other male role models like my current DH.

50. Mister-M Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 10:31 am

    And Kathleen is welcome to complain about her disinterested ex here. As long as she knows that there isn’t much we can do to help. However, if she’s ever unfairly pushed out of her child’s life by her ex, that we can probably help with.

    Kathleen - much like anyone else here, the sooner you accept that you can’t change who your ex is, what your ex does, or how he interacts with your child, the sooner you’ll be able to stop complaining about that and be able to focus on continuing to build your relationship with your child. You can’t MAKE a relationship build between the child and dad, particularly if he simply doesn’t want to put forth the effort.

51. JB Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 10:55 am

    And you have no idea what my life is like, either.

    I have worked my entire adult life. I also reared five children by myself. I also purchased two homes, all by myself. I renovated the first one so that it could fit my family. All by myself (well, with the help of a contractor, whom I hired). I sold it and upgraded to a better home when I could afford it. I renovated that one as well, to meet the changing needs of my growing family. Did that all by myself, too.

    I too did “everything around the house”, including cleaning, cooking, yard work, etc. I also took the time to teach my children how to do these things, so that they would not grow up helpless or ignorant or dependent on others. I also arranged my work week (whenever I was able) to be able to take time to volunteer at my childrens schools. I especially loved giving talks at the junior high career day: right when young girls are socialized to pretend they are dumb, and to decide that they don’t like math and science, along comes this lady who is a math and computer geek who gets to design jet fighter cockpits. Fun stuff. But, I digress.

    I took ten years to complete a bachelors degree, going to school part time, while also working and doing everything I mentioned above. I was pregnant with my fourth child when I received my bachelors degree; at that time, my husband and I were just beginning to suspect that maybe the many increasing problems he was encountering were due to a mental illness (not BPD, but a psychosis that would ultimately cause him to lose complete touch with reality). I was pregnant with my fifth child when he was diagnosed. His first suicide attempt (that I knew about) came when the baby was three days old.

    After my marriage ended (youngest was one year old at the time), I went to graduate school, earning a masters and then a PhD, while also supporting my family in a growing career, purchasing the homes mentioned above, and maintaining life. There was no “rehabilitative alimony” for me, and even if there had been, I would have been offended to take something that I had not earned. I am not that way.

    And during my many years in the work force, I worked with men who dropped their children off at school on the way to work, while their wives slept in. I worked with men who went to the grocery store on their way home from work, and then went home to cook supper. I worked with men whose weekends automatically included yard work and other “honey do” items around the house.

    Or, put another way, NORMAL, RESPONSIBLE adult human beings do all that you mentioned in your post, PLUS they also support themselves and their families by earning a living and paying their bills. I guess that’s why I simply cannot find any sympathy for women who act as if they have done something heroic when they take all day long to do the exact same thing that the rest of the world manages to accomplish in a few hours in the evenings and weekends… after also working all day. I guess that’s why I’ll never understand the women who characterize it as an either/or prospect: either I can stay home and clean the house, OR I can actually work and produce something that benefits the world. Why is it either/or, when there are so many people out there doing both? Why the double standard, that expects MEN to work all day and still come home and do chores and yard work and honey-do’s… but WOMEN are what– fragile? Incompetent? Or just plain lazy? Why the post-divorce double standard, that expects MEN to work, split their paycheck between two households, and still come home and be single parents… but WOMEN are what– entitled?

    Oh, and please do NOT hold up your kids as your one grand contribution to this world, either (I love how SAHMs always say that their “work” is rearing kids — again, implying that working mothers are, what, I don’t know, allowing their children to be raised by wolves or something). I can name you five young women whose mother worked their entire lives. One (age 29) created a successful tutoring business that is now franchising out to three different cities. One has received five promotions in four years at her bank, and is one year away from receiving an MBA in International Finance, paid in full by her employer. One owns a successful dance studio, and teaches up to 60 young girls ballet, tap and jazz. One will be a senior in college this fall — her employer (a prominent video game retailer) is also putting her through on a tuition assistance program because she is on track for a management position at their premier retail location. This young adult has also financed her college education by creating one of the most-visited Manga and Anime websites on the web today. And the last one begins college in a few weeks on a full scholarship. Even though she worked part-time for her last two years of high school, she also kept her grades up (hence, the scholarship), and volunteered over 20 hours a month, including a mission trip to Galveston, Texas, to render aid to people after Hurricane Ike. And by the way, the first three that I mentioned here — yeah, they are all home-owners, too. After spending their days at the tutoring center, bank, and dance studio (respectively), they also go home and clean, and cook, and mow their yard, and maintain their homes.

    So I suppose I could have sat around whining for the past 17 years. Life handed me a raw deal, didn’t it? I didn’t ask to have my marriage fall apart due to a devastating mental illness. I didn’t get the big money payout of alimony or CS. I could have been a victim. My kids could have been victims.

    I choose to see it differently. I was willing to work hard, yes. People pitched in and helped. I got scholarships. I got research grants. I volunteered on a community clean-up day and just happened to end up side-by-side with the chief test pilot of a well-known fighter jet program with a well-known aerospace company, and due to that network connection, I fell backwards into a wonderful career.

    Tell me that whining would have gotten me all that.

    Most importantly, I have my dignity and my self-respect. My children and I have confidence. I will never have to worry about my girls being victims, being poor, being trapped in an abusive relationship, or being stuck sitting around waiting for someone to send them a check. This is something that all the alimony and child support in the world could never purchase.

52. Kate Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 11:34 am

    Mister-M: Did PEW send a follow up email asking why you didn’t answer her first one? Also, where in the state guidelines does it say that after being LAID OFF you should continue to pay the higher amount when you also have proof of job searches? And what happens when they finally realize you have been overpaying since March? Will you get some of that “credit” that my DH gets (numbers with no money attached)?

53. Mister-M Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    It’s complicated.

    First - no, she didn’t send a follow-up. There are times when she doesn’t.

    Second - you can’t get a downward modification until after a hearing. You don’t get a hearing until after a conference… in the meantime, you can see how the significant lag time in getting the downward mod means… you pay per the current order regardless of your circumstances.

    Third - I won’t get credit back to March. If you read one of the prior installments, because my ex-company eventually coughed up a severance deal (between unused vacation and pay-off) of approximately 13 weeks, I wasn’t entitled to a reduction until after that period passed. Now that those 13 weeks have come and gone, the circumstances are what they are. If things go the way *I* think they should, I would get credit back to approximately July 1 and my modified petition didn’t hit the docket until June 29th.

54. WTF Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    I agree with Sam Homemaker as well. I think someone should be at home with the children. If the wife makes more money then she should work. I have no problem with a man staying home with the kids if they can afford it. I’m old fashion in believing that a parent (male or female) should be at home with the kids.

55. Kathleen Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    thanks you all… I love the comments… I really didn’t want to be involved like I was here. I was simply trying to show my support for Mister-M. Funny, how it all got turned on me.

    thanks again for all your comments… I know you all are a strong, opinionated bunch. I was trying to participate… I never wanted to be the one scrutinized.

    If anyone wants to continue this with me, you can take it to my email or blog, however, I really don’t want to continue this here. It seems wrong for me to be involved here on this blog.

    thanks!

56. JB Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    @WTF — after the age of five years old, the kids are not at home. They are at school.

    Unless they are actively home-schooling the kids, then neither “Suzy” nor “Sam” has any need to remain in an empty home all day long.

    The difference is, due to our laws, our society, and our built-in biases, “Sam” does not have the choice to merely opt out of responsible adulthood. “Suzy” does. And I strongly believe that is wrong. And especially, if “Suzy” decides she no longer wants to be married, she certainly should not have the right to continue to opt out of responsible adulthood. Meanwhile, if “Suzy” decides she no longer wants to be married — according to our family court system, “Suzy’s” ex-husband is now required by law to not only work, but to work twice as hard so that he can support a household he no longer lives in. That’s wrong, too.

    @Kathleen — I have to say that even though you took a few ‘hits’ here, what you did was of great value. You helped spur on some serious thought and discussion on this entire issue. I truly hope that you and everyone else here (myself included) is willing to acknowledge their biases, address their prejudices, and perhaps consider doing things a little bit differently in their own lives as a result. And I realize that while I come off as pretty hard-assed (thirty years holding my own in the rough-and-tumble career environment will do that), I still passionately believe that women in general will simply do better in this world when we stop creating and perpetuating victimhood for ourselves, and instead step into our gifts and our power. Well, men too, for that matter.

57. Kathleen Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    Thanks, JB, I am seriously glad I could spur conversation… that’s what these blogs and forums are about. I just wasn’t ready to be the new “student” or should I really say “victim”… naw, I’m really not a victim. I know when I say things, especially in written form, it’s not communicated well. There’s so much about what has happened and it would take days to fully fill everyone in. I certainly didn’t want to spew at all, even as much as I did… is there a delete button?!! tee, hee. I really don’t care about me. My girls have been through a rough emotional road. It’s them that I have cared about. And, I never wanted to be a single parent. When my ex left the state, I was absolutely shocked. This was after a year of being accused of Parent Alienation! The court system is a mess. Like you say, if you could coach more people especially before they get an attorney, things would be better. I went to your website and found it interesting. It’s a super concept and in fact, I have a dear friend that is just starting the divorce process and my advice to her is to NOT hire an attorney. I told her to seek mediation, however, now that I see the type of business you have, I think I will suggest this option for her. Her stbx is not a vindictive man, however, of course, they are starting to get pissy with each other. I am a very upbeat person with a thick skin. My mind can’t even comprehend all that I have gone through over the last 5 years, of just the divorce process, let alone all the control I allowed my ex to have during our marriage. I was young and too trusting. I don’t regret anything about my past and I have an exciting future ahead.

    This was good for me. It makes me think, absolutely about how to empower my girls even more. As I say, it’s not about me. I am fine, which seriously pissed off my ex more. I am sure you have dealt with what happens when a control freak won’t stop, right? Everything I do that empowers me or my girls, seems to cause my ex to get even more spiteful. I stay away from conversing with him and can’t. He has cut off all contact and we use a PC/DM (he uses his lawyer). So, my girls are forced to communicate with him… he plays games with them. He’s secretive and seriously abuses them emotionally!

    I truly enjoyed all the comments and I have a thick skin.

    thanks again… I am truly glad that we could all chat about this. I do love to learn about all of this as day to day, something new happens with my situation. As much as folks say to just ignore it, somethings I can’t due to my obligation to the Court and my kids.

    I think you should start a forum on your website… wouldn’t it spur conversations like this and get more folks interested in your services and those like it? I know I will never hire another attorney, ever!

58. Mark Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    I’d also note that I live in the Green Lake neighborhood of Seattle. One of my big tip offs was the whining about dad’s issue with her daughter going to SU. Seattle University (a 30k yearly Jesuit private college) is located in the International district, and frankly it’s a bad neighborhood. Right up off James St is Harbor View, which is the local public hospital, and we know what that usually attracts. Swedish is also in the general area. Down 12th Ave a few blocks from SU are two drug/alcohol in-patient rehab centers, both of which take patients from the court system. Up on 10th Ave are apartment buildings used as halfway housing for Juvie offenders and a few blocks south is a mess of section 8 and project housing. She tries to make it all about the money, but what sane parent wouldn’t have a problem sending a girl from Douglas county (has some suburbs like Parker, but is mostly rural like Frank Town) into a bad neighborhood in a very large west cost city? Not to mention alone, some 1,300 miles for the nearest family. But of course, the issue really must be the money.

59. Kathleen Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    Mark, actually, Seattle University is more like $44k (ouch!) a year and my daughter got scholarships and grants. She also went to a Jesuit private highschool, as my ex is the one that has a thing for status and thought public school was beneath her, so there was a scholarship for going to a Jesuit college of $6k just because of that. Douglas County, where I do live is like number #1 in the country for good public schools. I was fine with public schools and my younger daughter goes to the public high school now. Seriously, was that not a control issue for my ex? dunno… Swedish is right across the street for SU. It’s an amazing hospital. My ex had my daughter go their for neurological evaluations and more. Not to a regular doc, but there. Seattle University is also pretty self sufficient. My daughter didn’t have to leave the campus for anything. The college is very personal. There are only 2500 or so students total and since it’s private, they have the funds for security and even have a medical facility on campus, which I thought was a fine facility. My ex would not allow my daughter to go there as he thought the docs were “quacks” as he called them. Since my daughter was still 17, my ex could make her go for medical care where he chose. This is why things get so out of hand. My ex wont communicate anything with me, so the kids have to communicate directly. This is ridiculous! Both parents need to be on the same page.

    My ex did agree to allow my daughter to go to Seattle. I can document that as we go through a court appointed PC/DM. We talked in length about college. He said in court docs that he didn’t approve of our daughter going, which is a in fact, a lie! And, if he is so against our daughter going to Seattle, why would he, on the phone to my daughter just Monday, tell her to go back to Seattle if she couldn’t get in to CU Boulder. What is up with that? We have extended family there and my daughter was going with other classmates from here. I’ll tell you why he would say that, he does not want to deal with any of this. He doesn’t want to deal with the past life he had which is two children. Well, I am not “legally allowed to make unilateral decisions for the minor children”.

    So, as much as you keep talking about me (and oddly not to me) and how I am so worried about money and taking as much as I can from my ex… you are wrong! I contribute the same amount to my daughter for college as my ex.

    I am worried about doing what is best for the children and will not take the burden of responsibility when it comes back to haunt me.

    so….?????? What do you suggest?

    I love Seattle, by the way! You certainly live in a beautiful area. I grew up in CT and miss the water! and, good food!!!!

60. Kathleen Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    I think, too, that even if I had all the money in the world, when dealing with a person like my ex (like Mister-M’s ex) there is nothing I could do that is right by him. So… he threatens me with the court system and our “Orders”.

    Maybe JB can speak on that topic… how does one deal with an ex-spouse who still gets to have a say in parenting issues? I tried to Motion the Court to have sole parenting decision making, of course, I got ripped to shreds on that. I have even tried to give my ex the kids, he wouldn’t take them. So, he makes me out to be unfit, yet won’t follow through on his threats. At this point, he barely sees them unless it fits in to his schedule. However, I have to honor what the Court says…

    help!!!!

61. Mister-M Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    My suggestion, Kathleen, would be to register for the forums (if you haven’t already done so) where more prolonged and directed conversation about any of your specific issues can take place. It will eventually get lost here…

62. MR Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    “how does one deal with an ex-spouse who still gets to have a say in parenting issues? I tried to Motion the Court to have sole parenting decision making”

    The parent with legal custody has the sole right to make parenting decisions. I am requesting sole legal custody in my current/ongoing proceedings, and the GAL is also recommending it.

    After 13 years of being unable to cooperate and agree on even the tiniest most inconsequential decisions for daughter, it is my hope that the court will finally recognize that joint legal custody will not work in this case, and grant all decision-making powers to me. This will spare daughter a lot of conflict and guilt.

    My PEG’s choices and decisions for daughter are driven not by what is best for daughter, but by which decision will benefit PEG most or, failing that, hurt me the most, emotionally or financially.

    Joint legal custody is ideal, but only when both parents truly have the interests of the child at heart, and are willing to place their needs after those of the child. Otherwise, sole legal should be granted to the parent who has a proven track record of acting in the child’s interests.

63. Kathleen Says:
    August 6th, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    MR… keep us posted on that! I think that is the only way to do things. It sounds like you have the same situation I do with decision making. Are you over on the Forum? I would love to venture in to how others deal with this. I couldn’t get my sole legal custody/sole decision making approved in Court… Colorado is a very kid friendly state, which is good… unless…

64. Lengthy Child Support Modification Due to Unemployment | The Psycho Ex Wife Says:
    August 7th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    [...] Get updates for FREE by Email or RSS, follow us on Twitter, get a FREE Report on “Why Co-Parenting Doesn’t Work”, or learn how to win child custody with a custody coach. Thanks for visiting!Finally.  Continuing from the last update earlier this week… [...]

65. MR Says:
    August 7th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Kathleen, each judge that has heard my case over the years (revolving door of judges is another serious problem for discussion at another time) has admonished my PEG and me for not being able to cooperate with each other. If you know anything about BPD or high-conflict personalities, you can imagine how frustrating it is to have somebody wag a finger at you saying “why can’t you just get along with her?” Argh.

    I think our current judge, with the input from the GAL who has been on the case for a few years now, is finally “getting it,” and I should get a good outcome on August 26th. Of course I will post the outcome here if I ever get a ruling.

    It will be such a relief to be able to make decisions for daughter without being undermined or challenged by the PEG every time, and going to court over every little thing.

    I have not checked out the Forums, but I’ll have a look.

    MR

66. liz Says:
    August 30th, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    LM - you are a total Jackass…first of all your PEW offered to drop the CS in March…2nd even though the judge SAID he was going to increase you, she left it at $400….thirdly, when you moved back to the state to begin with the support was supposed to be $630/month and she agreed to make it $400/month. Wow she sounds so unreasonable?? Guess what too?? this is my favorite part..it didn’t cost her a dime…her attorney is ProBono…because your a psycho, she got a free attorney.I don’t see anyone volunteering to take your case pro bono. Here’s more…she was well within her rights to fight you when you moved up here and asked for 50/50, but she didn’t because she’s REASONABLE. She offered to help with your situation on the Orthodontist, but you NEVER responded. She misses her kids terribly but since they had the opportunity to go away with you…she allowed them to stay with you this week!! Boy she sounds like a real psycho. Her house is NOT a shithole either…are you for real?? The dog is crazy…and in hindsight the offer to let you stay there was probably not a good idea because you’d probably kick him down the steps like you did to the other dogs. Did it ever occur to you that she was trying to save the home for the children? And PP moved out because your PEW was afraid you were going to sue for custody again..citing all the things you have revealed on your sick website? It has nothing to do with money for PEW…if she thought you’d go away if the CS was totally off the table…trust me she’d jump at the chance. You and your girlfriend are total A-holes.
    Liz

67. Bob Says:
    August 30th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    are you serious? this story gets more and more twisted by the minute.

68. Open Letter to Psycho Ex-Wife about Child Custody, Parental Alienation, Abuse, Stalking, EVERYTHING! | The Psycho Ex Wife Says:
    August 31st, 2009 at 11:03 am

    [...] third stage, in case you missed it, was PEW writing comments, denigrating LM (link), DW, (link) family, and friends [...]

69. ImOver Says:
    August 31st, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    Liz, if you could get me the name of that Pro Bono attorney I would greatly appreciate it.
    Also it is very nice that you ALLOWED the kids to go with their father, it just shows how big of a person you are by using your supreme abilities to grant the time to spend with their father.
    Stop living in the past and get over the dog issue!
    PP seems to be a drunk slob who can not control her liquor and should not be allowed near the kids.
    If it has nothing to do with the money then stop worrying about it and go into court the next time and say that you no longer need child support? I bet you will not do it though.

70. aunt juicebox Says:
    September 2nd, 2009 at 11:22 am

    LM, I had no idea you were a dog-kicker.

71. DW Says:
    September 2nd, 2009 at 11:39 am

    Aunt Juicebox, Funny, neither did LM. He finds out a lot of things about himself from PEW, lol.

72. rj Says:
    September 3rd, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    Is it me or does Liz have serious issues with linear conversation? (talking about a topic, then smoothly transitioning to another topic).

73. Cecelia Says:
    September 3rd, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    And how many times have PEW’s emails started with or contained “LM - you are a total jackass.” HMMMMMM……
    Oh the similarities!

74. KMorgan Says:
    September 30th, 2009 at 3:38 am

    Kathleen, you seem to backtrack and contradict yourself too often for me. As your posts progress, you seem to change what you think… Sounds too familiar to me…

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