Job Loss/Child Support Update - 5/15/09: Hearing Part II
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I wanted to add some random details, observations, and interactions from yesterday’s conference and hearing experience.
The 2008 Tax Filing
Bulldog, PEW’s counsel, was overtly combative. While I’m certain that it’s perhaps just part of her general nature, I’m also fairly safe in assuming that it’s combined with the stories PEW has told her. She was indignant about having a “full copy” of my 2008 Tax Filing, which I came prepared to offer. Of course, it matched my W-2. There was no other income. There simply wasn’t. Bulldog wanted a copy and held my original on her side of the table in front of her after reviewing it…
Mister-M: (reaching across the table) “I would like to have my original tax filing back, thank you.”
Bulldog: (putting her hand over it) “No! I’m going to need a copy of it and the conference officer can make us a copy.”
Mister-M: “I understand that. I just wouldn’t want to see it get misplaced and I end up leaving without it, I’ll take that now, thank you.”
Bulldog: (picking it up and placing it at the end of the table between us and the conference officer) “No, we’ll just leave it here at the end of the table so that Gertrude can make us a copy of it.”
Mister-M: Picks it up from the end of the table without comment and places it back in his folder.
As I always do when I prepare for court, I had 4 copies of everything. Bulldog seemed surprised that when she would ask for a copy of something, I’d simply slide it from my folder and offer her one. The only thing I didn’t bring copies of was the 2008 Tax Filing. At the end of the session, I pulled the Tax Filing from my folder and said to Gertrude, “Ms. Gertrude, would you kindly make a copy of this for Bulldog? Thank you.” Gertrude made the copy, redacted all of the critical financial identifiers, and gave her a copy.
The Hidden Income Discussion
When it became clear that there was no documentation of any hidden income on my part and while Bulldog was dictating what numbers Gertrude should be putting into the system, I piped up…
Mister-M: “It would appear that you forgot to also include the rental income that PEW gets from her sister, Psycho-SIL.”
Bulldog: (stammers a touch) “Well, it isn’t much, but we have no problem including that, I… I just don’t think it’s going to make much of a difference. She’s only contributed $2,350 dollars in payments since September 1st, 2008. But, you know, much of that goes for food, and electric, and other utilities and things like that.”
As if any of the additional details matter.
Mister-M: (directed at PEW) “So, you’re claiming that PP has only paid you approximately $275/month in rent since she’s stayed with you?”
Bulldog: “Well, Psycho-SIL is moving out on June 1st and she’s been saving her money to get her own place and that’s how PEW has been helping her out.”
That’s what some scumbag attorneys are for… running bullshit interference on behalf of their client. I thought bullshit-proof boots were enough. Obviously, I should have brought waders.
Bulldog: “How much is your mortgage payment?”
Mister-M: “[A lot more than that]“
Bulldog: “Well then, we should also factor DW’s half of the mortgage payment as rental income for you!”
Mister-M: (openly laughs) “Uh, absolutely not and you know it, Bulldog. DW hold title to that real estate and has a financial interest in it. What she pays is not rental income and is a far cry from the situation between PEW and Psycho-SIL.”
Bulldog: (Silence).
Now… with my attorney back on board, I don’t expect the same result in calculations, obviously. Further, the subpoenas will all be done properly, so we’re going to find out just how long Psycho-SIL has lived there. It was longer than 7 months ago. I hate that this is going to come at considerable expense, but the consequences of not doing this the proper way and with appropriate legal counsel (in the face of a 20-years experienced family law attorney) is significant. I have no choice. I don’t.
Idle Chit-Chat with HR Manager by PEW
As our time approached, we were the only ones in the waiting area. And with that fake, typically sickeningly-sweet voice, she asked HRManager (who has never met PEW) incessant questions about nearly every single person who ever worked at the last place of employment. PEW hasn’t worked there in over 10-years. Very few people there liked her when her time to leave ended. I felt bad for HRManager, who at one point, rolled her eyes at me. Why? It wasn’t chit-chat between friends, it was practically an interrogation. Of course, HRManager felt obligated to answer every single question she posed.
She even asked in a nice way about people who openly dislike her, people who remain close friends of mine. If I wasn’t scared shitless about what might happen at the hearing, I probably would have laughed. Even people who were friends with her during her employ there got sick of her crap and haven’t spoken to her in a decade, yet… here she is asking questions of HRManager as if she’s close to these people.
The Phone Call
I wasn’t 10-minutes out of the proceeding when my phone rings. Caller ID: PEW. Message…
It’s PEW, Give me a call. I figured we could talk and we can avoid the whole thing… this whole continuance in June or, uhhh… whatever hearings are coming down the road. So, bye bye.
Yes, because negotiating with a terrorist has ever worked before. She’s like a broken record. Also, notice the language. She’s tipped her hand. “Whatever hearings are coming down the road…” That’s PEW-speak for “I’m filing for custody of the children.”
The Email
And arriving right on time, not 5-minutes before this is actually about to be posted, comes the email…
LM, I think you should give me a call to see if we can work this out. I don’t want to be tied up in court again and I’m thinking you don’t either. The recommendations of my attorney are for an increase in support and modification of custody and I’m torn about what I should do. Call me.
The Psycho Ex-Wife is now on attorney #3. My fantasy reply to her would be something along the lines of: “You’ve gotten bad advice from attorney’s before and when they find out the truth about you, they’re gone… ain’t nothing I can say that will stop you from doing it again. Dumbass. Everybody will lose… again!”
*IGNORE*
And that’s the truth of the matter. Another attorney is whispering promises in her ear that she cannot possibly come through with, and I’m sure that we’re going to be looking at another round of custody hearings. On what grounds? That I lost a great job in an abysmal economy? Oh, joy.
May 15th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
“Well then, we should also factor DW’s half of the mortgage payment as rental income for you!”
I think “Scumbag” is an understatement…
“LM, I think you should give me a call to see if we can work this out.”
Forgive me if I’m having a senior moment…but didn’t you ask her to do that before this all began?
All I can say–after being completely gob-smacked–is that it’s a damn good thing you’re as experienced and well-prepared as you are…we ordinary mortals in a similar situation would have gone down with the ship long ago…
May 15th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Yep, her attorney knows the only way PEW will get more child support is if she increases her custody, so she’s going to push her to try. Of course just like the others, PEW hasn’t told her the truth, so her attorney will be unprepared for what happens if she takes the steps. I almost hope she does because we have a lot to take into court and our judge knows the old stories way better than her attorney, so it will just be more fuel to the fire. LM went from every other weekend to 50% last time, maybe this time he’d get full custody.
May 15th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
God, Mister-M, I feel your pain. My DH’s PEW wants him to pay for half of SS’s unnecessary summer camp when a)SS could just stay home with me and the baby and b)PEW does not pay any CS whatsoever and she only has visitation. She also said that the money would help maintain her car. As if we would give HER money!
In addition, DH’s PEW requested joint physical custody (not even when hell freezes over, lady!) because she wants CS.
DH was pissed so he sent PEW an e-mail saying she should just take him to court. DH’s PEW is now back-peddling just like your PEW and saying she wants to go to mediation and does not want to fight with my DH.
What it’s really about is how she just got a wage cut and can’t afford a lawyer, because just last month PEW was threatening to take my DH to court.
Your PEW and her Bulldog are idiots. They think they can pull the wool over your eyes, but you are a smart person who has done his homework. My DH’s PEW and her former Bulldog tried to do this to DH, but they did not succeed.
There’s no way in hell Bulldog’s calculations for your new CS payments are correct. In fact, I hope you succeed getting CS from your PEW.
May 15th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
I have to say Lawyers like Bulldog drive me crazy! They only get half the story and run with it so they can exhaust their clients money and move onto the next bank account, oops, I mean client when they find out they can not win.
Mister M as usual you did a great job and I am glad I found this website and get to read your stories.
May 15th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Is it possible she is just trying to scare you into settling on the child support by threatening to take you back to modify custody?? Our PEW has threatened that before but never followed through with it; she was just trying to get more money of out us by scaring us into submission (it didn’t work).
Is it just me, or are these 11th hour voicemail/email messages you’re getting smacking of desperation? “Oooh, let’s see if we can work this out, let’s avoid this whole thing, I don’t want to be tied up in court again blah blah blah…..” Huh???? She could have done all of that by acting like a human being in the first place. Is she trying to get you to settle and agree to pay her before you DO get in front of a judge who might be sympathetic to your situation and makes her pay up???
Hang in there.
May 15th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
I have to agree that it sounds like PEW is desperate….we just got our official recommendation in the mail today, and it came to less than we offered our PEW as a consent! I don’t think you are to lose totally on this one at all. It sounded like the judge knew the tactics of BULLDOG, and gave you the chance to regroup. Also, if she wants to say you can’t handle 50% time while unemployed, then ask why there should be any child care needed at all since they can be with you 100% now that you are unemployed?
May 15th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Good point about the child care!!!!!
May 15th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
It’s desperation. Here’s my assessment:
- She thinks I need to reconsider because the figure she was told yesterday is the “be all, end all” of the situation.
However, it’s clear that Bulldog is attempting to impute my income, which is not going to happen just now. That reality doesn’t matter to her… it’s just like she believed that she was entitled to 70% of the marital assets and that I would “never” get 50/50 custody. She thinks she’s in a position of absolute power and I really believe that she is not. I think I’m right on this given how the original calculations were done and what D-Mac told me.
- On the custody issue… she’s a bonafide idiot and so is Bulldog.
They have absolutely NO grounds on which to base a change in custody. I can’t imagine that they would justify a layoff as a reason and don’t believe even a very biased court would look upon that as anything but disgraceful. For some strange reason, PEW believes threatening to take custody from me is a fear factor. It’s not. I’ve done nothing but gain custody since her last attorney bailed.
- It’s expensive.
Her attorney comes from a pretty decent firm. Even if she did yesterday pro bono, no way she is going to do anything prolonged for free. I think she banked on me not having a lawyer and thought I would cave-in. She’s desperate. If I don’t settle, it’s going to cost her (and us) a tremendous amount of money to do either or both. For me, I have to spend the money because a loss, worst-case scenario, means jail is on the horizon. I have no choice. She… has a choice.
- She always offers to settle, but only when she has what she believes to be the upper hand.
If we had walked out of that conference yesterday and she was told that the order is vacated as of say… May 1st and she has to start paying child support… we wouldn’t see such an email from her.
May 15th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
And if she does file for custody, no one on this earth can legitimately say it’s for ANYTHING other than money. No one.
May 15th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Bulldog is fishing for a retainer plain and simple. She will tell her anything to get the check.
My PEW spent several thousand on a modification petition that had no chance, my attorney knew it (and told me to go pro se to save the money), the judge knew it (and ruled it), and her attorney knew it…PEW was the last to find out and by then the checks had cleared. If it had been any more blatant they could have arrested her attorney for robbery.
May 15th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
“And if she does file for custody, no one on this earth can legitimately say it’s for ANYTHING other than money. No one.”
Oh come on Mister M. That is just going to far.
It is for money AND tastycakes for the children.
May 15th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
“she’s a bonafide idiot and so is Bulldog”
It’samazing how the same type of people can hook up!
My PWIF’S asshole…I mean lawyer INSISTED the court order the marital residence to be auctioned in 120 days when:
a) there will be NO profit from the sale (house is currently up for sale at $100 LESS than is owed..no offers)
b) I was court ordered to pay ALL home relatede expenses (NO costs for her)
The reason (IMO)? Just so I would have to move out of my home.
I wonder if he would have insisted that “we have got to get rid of this real estate” if the PWIFE had been granted exclusive use? Yea, I didn’t think so. They really believe we are too stupid to see what they are trying to do.
May 18th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
I hope your feeling a little bit better now. Having legal reprisentation goes a long way towards calming the stomach.
As far as the lawyer claiming “rent” from DW as income, well, in my state, if you are remarried, your spouse’s income is considered in how much you have to pay to the custodial parent. However, in a 50/50 custody arrangement, the one with the most income ALWAYS pays support. I have several female relatives and friends who pay support to their exes. Seems fair to me.
June 2nd, 2009 at 12:55 pm
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