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Custodial Interference & Parental Alienation: 2005

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You might say that this is a stretch, but for all of the experiences that followed, I can find the groundwork for the antics being laid in these earlyish email exchanges.  Her regularly pleading with me to agree to minimize my custodial time… her forthcoming scare tactics and involvement of her “big bad family” members… the flip remarks about me giving up my parental rights… it’s all the same pattern and one seen all over the country and world.  Gate-keeping mom pushing dad out of the children’s lives.

It’s still early March 2005 when this first email that was part of the whole support/custody/job/relocation monster-post occurred.  I made a reference to it in that post, but didn’t address it fully.  This was split out into the pertinent parts between us…

PEW:

I’m sorry things are so crazy for you right now. I think it’s better if we don’t talk at all because I think you are stressed and I think you are taking it out on me.

LM:

I know that this is what you want to believe, but I am not stressed and I am not taking anything “out” on you. I understand if you don’t want to talk via phone and can appreciate that, but I reiterate that the only thing I was unwilling to discuss with you were those things that were irrelevant to the issue at hand, which I’ve already detailed for you, otherwise, I have no problem talking with you on the phone.

PEW:

You moved to [home-state] LM, to be with DW. That’s great for you, but it shouldn’t effect the boys or me in such a profound way, like with the schedule you are requesting.

LM:

I moved to [home-state] for a variety of reasons, PEW. And despite your assertions to the contrary, you grossly overstate how “cumbersome” that this will be on the children. They are excited to visit me here. They are excited to visit their new friends here. Your decision to bail out on the marriage instead of working on it more than a year ago shouldn’t affect the boys or me in such a profound way, but it has. Again, it’s all too convenient for you to pigeonhole circumstances to constantly lay the blame on everything at my feet.

PEW:

We need to start getting along better. You are being unreasonable right now and it is preventing us from working on the coparenting we are supposed to be working on.

LM:

We sure do need to get along better. Your constant efforts to stonewall me and minimize the limited amount of time I already get with S1 and S2 is not “in their best interests.” It’s only in yours. I’m sad and very sorry that you think that 2 months of primary custody with their father during the Summer is being unreasonable. Very sad.

This needs no further explanation. Adding to this discussion hours later was the first signs of trouble that would involve her family.

PEW:

Also, when you call to pick up the kids this weekend, I wouldn’t expect a warm reception from my parents.

LM:

All that is required of your parents is decorum in the presence of the children. Nothing more, nothing less. It is the same courtesy that my family would afford you.

Also, I might not be able to get up there this weekend, so perhaps they won’t have to concern themselves with controlling themselves when I come to pick up S1 and S2.

How frigging hard is it for two grown people to just bring the kids to the door and shut their fat yappers? Ooops! I forgot the family with whom I’m dealing.

It wasn’t long before she did even more maddening things. In an email titled “FYI on the Kids” and later changed to “Anxiety” - I get this…

PEW:

S1 threw up in school today in the morning. I had to go pick him up. No fever, he seems totally fine. Interestingly enough though, on the way to school, he said “boy, the summer is going to be here soon” I said yeah, he said “Am I going to Daddy’s this summer” I said yes, but I wasn’t sure how much of the summer. I said Daddy wants you guys to spend all summer with him, but I want some of the summer too. S1 said “S2 would be too upset without you Mommy” S1 said “I’d probably be ok though”……but then went to school and threw up. Is it anxiety? I wonder.

Wonderful. She tells the kids “Daddy wants you guys to spend all summer with him, but I want some of the summer, too.” What a disgusting, disgraceful LIE to tell the children. Nothing like planting to the seeds of demon-dad in their heads early, right? I’m also certain that she laid that heaviosity on them with her usual dramatic flair, enough to probably scare the shit right out of them. I was pissed…

LM:

Trust me, I understand that these life changes impact everyone. But one thing that has been repeatedly told us by counselors and I have repeatedly asked of you… is not to share the specific details of things that we have at issue with the children.

When S1 asks me about arrangements, my simple and appropriate response is, “Mommy and Daddy are working out the arrangements regarding the time you’ll be spending with each of us. We both love you very much and are going to make sure we work out the details as soon as we can.”

Your telling him how much I want the children versus how much time you want them (or don’t want to be without them) is COMPLETELY inappropriate and is likely a significant contributing factor to any anxiety he may have suffered this morning.

I implore you not to share with our boys the details of anything that we are not in agreement on. And I assure you that there isn’t a counselor in the world who would agree that the exchange as you described it above was in any way appropriate material to discuss with a 6-year old.

Rather restrained if I do say so myself. Of course, she doesn’t get it (because she lacks the maturity and intelligence to get it)…

PEW:

Listen, all of the counselors told US to answer the questions as honestly as possible. It’s a little hard for me to lie about this since you are turning our lives upside down. You don’t tell me what to do….Got it. I tell the boys that WE love them everyday, several times a day. I’m here for them always. I take them to school everyday, to the doctor’s everytime, I do it all. I don’t date, I don’t go out. I am totally committed to my children. I told S1 because he asked and I wanted to hear his opinion. He doesn’t want to go to your house all summer, but he’ll do it if he can spare S2….to keep you happy. You are pathetic and selfish. Of course they want to visit you, but their home is here….with me and that is the way THEY feel, not because of anything that I did, but because of the situation that YOU created. I’m sure you genuinely miss them, but that shouldn’t be your deciding factor in what they do for the summer. You decided to move, not them, not me…..YOU. Now please don’t ever preach to me again now that you are a long distance father.

Isn’t she just frightening? Worthy of quick mention here, with regard to her “total commitment” to the children (expressed in a rather disturbing way) is her contention that she doesn’t date. Not only was she dating (remember back to the mutual disclosure that we had been seeing other people back in January of 2005), but would reiterate that only a week or so from this date, which was around 3/8/2005.

Love her martyr routine, though. If they gave out Oscars for “creative writing” - she would certainly be up for an award. At risk of sounding like an insane parrot, notice again her contention that the things I do turn everyone’s life upside-down. Nothing she has done, including initiating the destruction of the family via divorce - has apparently had any impact in her mind.

LM:

You turned everyone’s lives upside with your decision to destroy the marriage. You only allege to be “honest” about things when you can portray me as a bad guy, which is the usual…

The counselors specifically said NOT to share with them “adult issues” and disagreements between us. THAT is the fact. You are sharing our “adult disagreement details” with the children, an absolute no-no in the eyes of the counselors. Additionally, it’s clearly an attempt to portray me as the “bad guy” to the boys, just as was the agreement to allow them to visit with me, and then after I tell them so, you rescind your agreement with a bunch of conflicting excuses.

Honesty is telling the boys that you and I are working out the details. Telling the children that I want to keep them all Summer while intimating that you wouldn’t see them is not only COMPLETELY inaccurate, it’s playing on the psyche of the children, and not in a nice way.

If you want to continue to poison the children against their father, that is your prerogative, but don’t think I’ll sit idly by and allow you to do it.

As if I didn’t have enough fears about my life and how much involvement I would have with the children, these are the types of things that the “normal” parent fears when it comes to situations like this. Why? There is NOTHING you can do to stop it. Even if you’re fortunate enough to have someone recognize parental alienation efforts AND, in rare recent cases in the news, get help addressing it, it’s normally years down the road after substantial damage has been done to the children. Further, it will probably be years more to undo the damage. Clearly from my response, I’m irate.

PEW:

I told S1 you and I were working it out, just like we always do and it’s nothing he needs to worry about. I never portray you as a BAD GUY. How paranoid are you to say I am “poisoning the children against their father” That is far from the truth and you know it. I never say anything bad about you so don’t start making up more stuff to bolster another case.

Playing on the psyche of the children??? Me???? You are a joke!!!

Liar. Liar. Liar. She knows exactly what she’s doing. Worse, she throws it in my face by being so bold as to tell me about it by sending me details via email. Sick, twisted, bitch.

LM:

That’s not what you wrote in the email. Telling him that I want the boys “all Summer” but you want them “some of the time” paints a clear picture, PEW. Additionally, what you did tell him is not the truth. Stop acting like S1 doesn’t understand that. I ask you again, the details of what we disagree on is not something you should be sharing with the children. There isn’t a counselor in the world worth his/her salt that would tell you differently. The fact that you and I are working out the arrangements is all they need to know at this age. You know it. I know it.

PEW:

I originally gave you the jist fo the conversation….then when you started flipping out I told you the rest of how it went. Are you ever going to stop torturing me? Is this what I have to look forward to till the boys are 18?

I’m a good mother, please do not infer otherwise because I never disparrage your fathering.

Oh, dear… the “I’m a good mother” card! Truth is, she told me exactly how the conversation went between her and S1. Now, she’s trying to say it was something different.

These were going to be some scary times. Yes, it was also one of the considerations I had to take into account before making my decision to take the new job and move. Even then, not yet realizing what the hell was wrong with this girlwoman, I knew that these issues would be forthcoming no matter where I lived.

I also knew that my move-away very likely weakened my position on custody, but I had to try to make the best of my circumstances. I was only asking for time that was appropriately available to me under the circumstances. She had just about all the money in a settlement she was ever going to get. She had just about all the money she was ever going to get via child support… and it still wasn’t/isn’t enough. It’s hard to imagine what drove her then to do these things and cause all this strife after getting the divorce she claims to have so desperately wanted for so long. Still, with her and far too many high-conflict ex-spouses (usually at the expense of fathers and children), the answer really boils down to:

PUNISHMENT AND REVENGE for things perpetrated against her, real or imagined. Nothing seems to stop them from doing what they do and the only people who suffer for it is everyone else.

8 Responses to “Custodial Interference & Parental Alienation: 2005”

  1. Enough Already Says:

    “It’s a little hard for me to lie about this since you are turning our lives upside down. You don’t tell me what to do….Got it. I tell the boys that WE love them everyday, several times a day. I’m here for them always. I take them to school everyday, to the doctor’s everytime, I do it all. I don’t date, I don’t go out. I am totally committed to my children.”

    This is almost word for word the response that we got when DH asked PEW to stop giving SD (5 at the time) the blow by blow of what was happening in Court.

  2. GGRR Says:

    OMG: Classic, classic, classic-the similarities never cease to amaze me!

    If you boil it all down, the revenge is for your “moving away to be with DW.”

    “I do it all. I don’t date, I don’t go out. I am totally committed to my children.” This is absolutely spookily like our PEW, the perfect martyr.She,too, left the marriage, while DH tried to hold on for the kids. They leave, but still want you around to continue the abusive cycle–and when you do the healthy thing and get your own life–YOU HAVE ABANDONED THEM.

  3. Mister-M Says:

    Frankly, I think I’m onto something when I speak (often) of the bizarre, at times - verbatim similarities with written communications, spoken communications, actions…

    …and dammit I wish someone would study it.

  4. April Says:

    A study has been done. The results are in. All PEW’s in the world share just one, tiny braincell.

  5. Astrid Says:

    I’ve been reading all the posts on your website. I am the daughter of a borderline woman who is probably borderline (she has been diagnosed bipolar and other things but I think borderline fits better), and a lot of the conflicts seem familiar to me. I think we’re lucky to be in a time when people are beginning to recognize borderline behavior for what it is. It was much worse 20 years ago I think! Not that it’s perfect now, but I do think things are getting better

    My mother treated my brother the way that your ex treats your sons, if I am understanding your blog correctly. He was always her baby and she never refused him anything, never gave him rules or chores to do, and she simply ignored anything he did that didn’t fit her rosy view of him. (She treated her daughters the opposite way, being very strict with us and accusing us of all sorts of mischief when we did nothing.) Of course, my brother wound up without the self-restraint or social skills to live in the world, and wound up being an unemployed drug user who hasn’t dated since he was 15 (he’s 30 now).

    I think it’s good that your sons have you to set an example and give them some limits and teach them about responsibility. I can’t imagine how difficult your situation must be, because you have to counterbalance your ex’s influence without ever contradicting her in front of the children. How do you even try to do such a thing?

  6. Karen Says:

    Here’s some more in support of PEW’s all share the same brain cell. We asked what her schedule was for the next two weeks because she had to work on her regularly scheduled visitation night and this is the response we got. In PEW thinking, having to work on her sons birthday is all our fault.

    “it seems as though you have no interest in working with us in this matter, proven by your actions and previous email, today , april 15th 2009. there for i fail to see what it matters to you at all. I have no desire to give you information regarding my personal life if all you plan to do is hold it against me. I have to work to support my children and you choose to punish me for that. I have done every thing to make attempt to work with you in the recent past and you choose to fight me or challenge every thing you possibly can. i am sorry that you can not find it within your self to work with my husband and myself to work toward a better environment for the children, i really hope that in the future you could chose to rise above your own hatred and anger rather than punish the children for your feelings towards us. The children are what’s important not your or my feelings about each other. being that you refused to allow me the right to see my son on his birthday and my scheduled night to be with the boys, would you at least tell him that his mother wishes him a happy birthday.”

  7. Ann Zuccardy Says:

    We’ve seen this routine too! His kids are teens now and successfully alienated!

  8. LMO3 Says:

    Dont forget PEH’s share that one brain cell as well. Sometimes it freaks me out to see that every word you write could be an email I receive from PEH. Everything your PEW writes are the samethings my PEH writes. From giving kiddos too much information to calling me selfish, to how much he sacrifices for the kiddos. Word for word… I recognize.

    I wish someone who could help with this would recognize it as well.

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