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Differing Approaches to a Disciplinary Issue

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There are times where a situation occurs that will yield the glaringly obvious as well as subtle differences in the approaches that the Psycho Ex-Wife and I take in addressing them.  This is actually the tough part of parallel parenting.  Why is it tough?  Some situations merit both parents attention regardless of on whose watch the situation occurred.  As effective communication between the two of you is strained and due to the differences in approach, the likelihood of presenting a perfectly united front is seriously limited.

Today’s discussion will center around discipline, something readers have already learned is drastically different between The PEW and I.  PEW has seriously limited or no boundaries, effective sanctions, or discipline in general for the children.  I do.  It’s that diametrically opposed.

A few weeks ago, I receive this email from the PEW:

Hi LM,

I just got a call from [Principal].  Apparently she got a call today from a parent aboutS2 .  On friday, he walked up to a white child, who was playing with a black child and said “why are you playing with that brown thing”?

The little boy went home and told his mom that he knows why kids don’t like him…because he’s brown.  [Principal] said they really haven’t had this type of issue before.  I am shocked, I can’t imagine where S2 would get that. I don’t think we talk about African Americans in a derogatory way ever?  Anyway, he’s losing his recess tomorrow and has to write an apology.  I definitely want to talk to him tonight though.  We did have a conversation a while back because he made a comment about black people talking funny.  And of course I gave him the diatribe about how people are all the same no matter what color skin, hair, fat, thin, etc..etc…  But that was months ago.

And of course…this little boy just moved here from Florida…so he has no friends yet…just like the kid S1 spit on.  Its embarrassing. Can you have S2 call me on my cell after you pick him up?  I have to work late.

~PEW

Well, my first thought is, I still can’t understand why the school cannot copy us both on such communication.  They aren’t too bad with it, but the default premise in many cases well beyond my own is that mom is the main point of contact, but I digress.

My second thought is, I wonder why she wonders where he would get it from - many in her immediate family are closet racists, especially “Pop-Pop” - a.ka. on the blog as EE.  I was convinced.  I was going to “bet the house” that it was EE.  If I were a betting man, I’d bet everything I owned.  And I would find out.

My third thought is, I can’t stand the school’s style of discipline.  What S2 said was horrible.  Flat-out horrible and completely unacceptable.  Losing a single recess has already been proven a failure at deterring poor behavior in students.  I know this because of my own children, not anyone else’s.

My final thought on this email was to literally half to stifle tears.  That’s not an exaggeration.  As I sat back and thought about this from a 7-year old black child’s perspective, my heart hurt that this kid went home to his parents and, based at least partly (if not wholly) on the words of my son, explained to his parents why people dislike him.  His skin color.  Then, I thought of what his parents must be feeling.  It didn’t feel good.

My reply: “Thanks for the information.  Busy night tonight with scouts and all, but I’ll be sure that we call you tonight at some point.  Very, very disappointing.”

She adds:

LM,

I should also mention that as hurtful as S1 knows fat jokes are because in the past when kids made comments to him, he was crushed…he’s been making fun of [Biff]….who is a very annoying child and I can see why S1 is annoyed by him, but he’s jumping of the bandwagon of the other kids about [Biff's] being fat. I told S1 if I get a call on that I will trash every video game in the house…the PS2, the DS, the Wii…..gone! I’m sure tonight while you’re talking to S2 he’ll be chiming in about how terrible it is that S2 did that. So there’s a comeback for you.

~PEW

There’s a comeback for me?  What is she, 10?  Yes, mentally, that’s exactly what she is.  PEW is great at being a blowhard where the children are concerned, particularly when it comes to discipline.  She LOVES to threaten and almost never follows-through.  Interesting to note PS2, DS, Wii… so if you don’t believe me when I tell you she spends obsessively on things for the children that are beyond need and even beyond want at this point - there’s a short admission from her.  It’s not lost on me how she denigrates the same boy she is telling me that S1 is denigrating.  Do you know how hard it is for me not to tell PEW that I know where these boys get this stuff from?  Her - and her family!  This won’t be the last example… and of course, I have to be the disciplinarian while she opts to be the blowhard (which is actually more than we usually see from her with regard to discipline).

And now I have TWO mouthy individuals to deal with when they get home from school.  I replied, “How did you come to find out he’s making fun of “Biff?”  Looks like we’re in for some interesting discussion tonight.”

She told me…

LM,

He was talking to S2 and I overheard him. I put him right on the spot and told him he better knock it off and he was arguing with me saying that [Biff] is “mean” and [Biff] does this and [Biff] does that, so I said “you can’t think of any other way to deal with it other than making fun of him”? ….then he said “whatever” under his breath. I think S1 is generally pretty nice to everyone….[Biff] is just one of those kids…really nerdy….do you know who I’m talking about? he’s a nice kid but the other kids don’t like him…sort of a tattle tail. I feel sorry for him because his mom is schizophrenic and they spend alot of time in and out of the ER (of course I heard this through the grapevine) The dad does everything with [Biff]. It’s a sad home situation, which obviously I can’t explain all that to the kids. Good Luck with that talk….they tend to be less fresh with you. When I talk to them they call it a “Walton” speech…compliments of Aunt PP.

~PEW

Well doesn’t this just get better and better with each passing email?

  • PEW continues to denigrate the child while at the same time pretending to be outraged at S1’s denigrating of the same child.  You’ll also notice that, though she knew of this situation in advance, she did nothing in terms of any actual discipline and instead waited until my custodial period to throw S1 under the bus.
  • S1’s “whatever” dismissive retort is a byproduct of her lack of discipline, her inability to instill a sense of accountability and respect in the children - and she’ll wonder herself right into the grave about why they do what they do to her and they don’t do it to me.  I can assure that S1’s first “whatever” retort to me will be his last.  I know that there are times when he is probably thinking it, but he knows better than to say it.
  • Biff’s mom’s alleged schizophrenia makes for a sad home situation.  I’m sure it does.  Guess what?  It’s not nearly as sad as an undiagnosed BPD, living with an untreated diagnosed Bipolar sister with historical substance abuse and other serious issues.  Frankly, I’m blessed that they are doing as well as they are right now.
  • The last line is the one that chaps my ass the worst.  Aunt PP is undermining whatever minimal efforts PEW makes to teach the children about right and wrong.  She obviously openly does this and engages the children to do the same.  So, PEW has children who have no respect for her.  She has a house-mate who has no respect for her and who conspires with the children to make fun of her.  What a wonderful environment in which to grow up.  Don’t wonder why I worry every single day about the long-term outlook for my children.  Here’s another serious example.

I discussed this with PEW no further via email.  That night, I sat down with both boys individually on their respective situations.  Making a long story short, I spoke with S2 for about an hour.  It’s tough to impart the knowledge of racial issues on a 7-year old, but I made a quality effort as they already are aware of slavery and things like that.  But he got a (calm, but firm) dressing down regarding what he did and the level of impact it had on that poor boy AND his family.  In an effort to try to get him to understand, I picked on various physical things associated with S2 and said to him things like…

  • TRY to imagine what it would be like if someone didn’t like you, not because of something bad you did, but because of your skin color?  Or your eye color?  Or your hair color?  Or that gap in between your two front teeth?  But I’m not talking about just making fun of you, but you weren’t permitted to do a lot of stuff, like play with them… like go to parties to celebrate with them… like they get everyone to hate you just because of some little physical attribute like your skin color?
  • I made an effort to impart on him just how deeply hurt that boy’s heart is by asking him to consider how it must feel for him to believe the WORLD hates him because of his skin?  Not only that, TRY to imagine how his parents’ hearts hurt because the little boy that they love and are raising to be a great person was hurt by another kid who acted like a the biggest jerk in the world?  What are they supposed to say to him?  What?  “Son, little S2 is a vicious, mean like jerkweed who knows nothing about you.  Stay away from jerks like that!” Oh yeah, that’s the kind of son I want growing up in my home.
  • I told him that I was going to give the school my phone number to pass along to the boy’s parents and, if they wanted to, we would be meeting face-to-face so that you can apologize to them as well.
  • I informed him if anything along these lines happens again, that he will face punishments that “I haven’t even thought of yet!”

Once he was dismissed, it was S2’s turn for a one-on-one.

  • I pointed out his own weight issues to him and ask him why, given his past experience with mean people, he felt it okay to make fun of others about their weight?  Of course, he had no explanation other than the kid just annoys him all the time.  (Unacceptable.)
  • I pointed out that he knows better based upon his own experience and that if I heard of anything like this happening again he will also face “unthought of punishments” that will be stiffer than any he has faced since he’s been on this earth.

In addition to the craptastic punishment meted out by the school, for the full week they were with me:

  • No television.
  • No snacks.
  • No visits.
  • No games.
  • 7PM bedtime (90-minutes earlier than normal) or immediately after scouts.
  • After school will consist of homework, scouts (on those nights they had them), and reading a book.
  • If they didn’t want to read a book in their room - then it was time for bed immediately after dinner & showers.

There were no complaints.  No shouting.  No hemming-and-hawing.  No begging or pleading.  They accepted that how they acted was wrong and, much to my surprise, didn’t ask a single time during the entire week for their punishment to be undone.  (Sometimes I do wonder if the reason that they are less inclined to argue about punishments is because they soon will be returning to the Freaking Funhouse.)

My biggest problem in the aftermath of all that?  PEW does nothing.  No discipline.  No involvement.  No “bad guy.”  No nothing.  The school imposes sanctions (regardless of how we feel about them).  Dad imposes sanctions (regardless of how we feel about them).  PEW does nothing.  And on top of that, when she tries to actually have meaningful discussions with the kids about their behavior, they blow it off because their crazy fucking bitchface Aunt PP is teaching them to not only ignore their mother, but to make fun of her.  There isn’t a damned thing I can do about it, either.  Much as I wanted to tell PEW that PP needs to be STOPPED from doing those things… she wouldn’t have done anything and, even if she had, PP wouldn’t have listened.

Anyone else wonder why our boys will struggle for discipline and responsibility?

———-

During my discussions with S2 about the incident, I was determined to find out where he learned to say such a thing about someone.  If I did bet, I’d have lost.

He explained that one of his best friends was where he learned this attitude.  I know the boy.  I know his mother.  Despite believing in my heart that the behavior is learned from the in-laws (and I still believe it is), I believed his story.

I explained to one of my own brothers as I told him the story that I can remember as a kid, if there was anyone else I could blame, knowing that they would never be found out or confronted, even if they didn’t do it, I might consider “taking a shot.”  I processed this all in the seconds following his explanation, considering that this may be one of those things “kids do.”  However, I recalled a story from this boy’s mother that led me to believe what he claimed.  Her significant other was ambushed some time ago while walking home from the train station.  The culprits - 3 black men.  He was stabbed in the head and beaten to within an inch of death.  So, I considered that in the aftermath of that experience, that there was likely a lot of negative racial talk in this kid’s household given the experience and that S2’s story of the source of such animosity was, in fact, truthful.  S2 is now well-aware that this kind of talk towards or about another human being is unacceptable and plain wrong.

Bad people are bad people regardless of the color of their skin.  Good people are good people regardless of the color of their skin.  Hopefully, he has learned from this lesson and will continue to learn this reality.

Next segment… Differing Approaches on an Educational Issue.

9 Responses to “Differing Approaches to a Disciplinary Issue”

  1. Differing Approaches to a Disciplinary Issue | take a TECKnews Says:

    [...] post by The Psycho Ex Wife and software by Elliott Back Categories: Uncategorized Posted By: Last Edit: 09 Feb 2009 [...]

  2. GGRR Says:

    Firstly, Mr M, I can’t tell you how much I admire you: you are resilient, resourceful, and strong–and you handled a soul-crushing situation so beautifully.

    I suspect that the kids took their punishments well because kids need limits–even if they kick against them. Strong boundaries make them feel safe.

    When my son was very little, he had a similar thing happen to him in school. He is 1/2 Jewish, and a little boy told him to “go back to Israel where you belong.” I called the school-and they called the boy’s parents. I received an anguished apologetic phone call from the boy’s dad, who said he had no idea where the child could have got those ideas. I think it was true–kids can pick things up from outside the family (though I had my doubts at the time). That was about 17 years ago–and the child and his family stayed in my son’s school until they graduated and went to University. I never saw any more evidence of prejudice–and the boy grew up into a really honorable kid.

    Your hardest task, though, is this constantly having to undo all the harm that PEW does with her chaotic style. Bravo to you for your unwavering efforts. I really do believe that the kids will com through it all ok in the end. I comfort myself with my own SS’s in thinking that some children have no sane and safe port in the storm–and they still come out ok.(I know this from the consulting room, as well as in daily life) So, to have an healthy alternative (in your case weekly) has to be good!!!

  3. Maria Says:

    I had to laugh when I read the part about the video games. At our PEW’s house the kids have computer games, a Wii, a Playstation 2, a Playstation 3, an X-box 360, AND a Nintendo DS each. Every time my husband calls to talk to the kids they are playing video games.

    When they’re at our house all they want to do is play video games and watch TV. If I make them go outside they sit on the front porch and cry. Literally. They have no idea how to entertain themselves because all the ever do is play video games.

  4. jb Says:

    Just an unsolicited recommendation: alongside of restricting the boys’ fun stuff as a disciplinary measure…

    … why not also take pro-active steps to increase the size of their world? You can decide what they are mature enough to handle. Some possibilities include learning about orphanages in AIDS-ravaged (or war-ravaged) countries, and finding ways to raise money for them; learning about famine and poverty in third-world countries and finding ways to raise money for them; helping do clean-up work at a Habitat House (they usually don’t let young children do any of the construction, but they will often allow children to participate on “dedication day” by sweeping the walk out front, or planting a flower in the flower beds - stick around for the dedication)… anyway, there are more. The point is, expand their world. Help them see that there are other children out there whose lives your children can touch and bless, even in a small way.

    For example, when my oldest daughter was five she learned of famine in Ethiopia, and participated in the Fast for a World Harvest by giving up cheese (her favorite food) for two weeks. I helped her calculate the cost of the cheese, and we sent that amount of money to the FWH charity.

    This year, we learned of an orphanage in South Africa where, for $8, we could buy a pair of warm boots for a child. Only, when the children receive the boots, they first take out the inner lining, and give that to another child, so that two children can have warm feet — one wears the boots, the other wears the lining. So we sent a lot of the money that we would have spent on Christmas gifts to buy boots for the orphans instead.

    These are opportunities right now to teach compassion to your children. It’s not merely about lecturing them on what they should or should not say. If you help instill in them a giving heart and a compassionate attitude, they’ll figure out for themselves how to avoid hurting others.

    Start small. They are old enough.

  5. Mister-M Says:

    Thanks for the feedback, jb. They’re all wonderful ideas.

  6. The Smirking Cat Says:

    I have seen “discipline” boiled down to “let your father handle that”, simultaneous with efforts to stop the kids from being with their father…no wonder the kids are confused.

  7. Parenting, Co-Parenting, Parallel-Parenting: Differing Approaches to Education 3 | The Psycho Ex Wife Says:

    [...] her family undermine the scant few efforts that she makes to do something along those lines - as I detailed in this post where her sister openly makes fun of PEW’s efforts to talk to the boys about something, [...]

  8. Parenting, Co-Parenting, Parallel-Parenting: Differing Approaches to Bullying | The Psycho Ex Wife Says:

    [...] or RSS or follow us on Twitter. Thanks for visiting!Yeah, I guess we should have named this “Differing Approaches [...]

  9. Parenting, Co-Parenting, Parallel Parenting - Different Approaches to Bullying | The Psycho Ex Wife Says:

    [...] kids, whereas S2 does not. I think there’s some jealousy going on there too and I think that’s why he said what he said to Someonelse last week when he was playing with Blackkid. I think he doesn’t want his friends playing with kids he doesn’t [...]

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