Child Misbehaves - Her Solution is to Give Him Up
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On or about March 16th, 2006, I had gotten a phone call from PEW. S1 was misbehaving and back-talking PEW because she didn’t give him a taffy as a snack. He said some very rude things and, despite what most readers already realize regarding the abusive behavior of PEW’s entire family toward one another, the blame can only be laid at one person’s feet. If you guessed mine - well, give yourself a taffy.
What was most alarming about this crazy phone call (and subsequent crazy emails) was PEW’s suggestion regarding how to deal with the situation. She suggested that I take full custody of S1 and she would retain full custody of S2. More of the same “I can’t handle the kids” stuff. While we know that she would never follow-through on such a plan, that she dared suggest it, on the phone, and in front of the children - knocked me for a loop. PEW’s parenting plan is to bail-out when the going gets tough. See:
- PEW Can’t Stand to Be Around the Children
- You Should Have Custody of Them
- PEW Can’t Handle the Kids - Wants to Settle (Not)
Though I had long previous refused to do any regular discipline over the phone, on this occasion I did opt to speak at length with S1 regarding the entire situation and how unacceptable his back-talk to PEW was, particularly when he clearly realized he was completely wrong.
After the entire debacle concluded, I sent an email to PEW:
PEW,
I am disturbed by last night’s phone call only because I fear that S1 was probably within earshot when you’re saying things like “maybe you’ll get your wish and S1 will come live with you and I’ll keep S2.”
I know that you will forever refuse to acknowledge how the things that you and your family say ultimately affect the children, but know this - his apprehension and anxiety are not simply rooted in “Dad moved to [home state].” When your family bad-mouths me and/or DW… when you threaten bodily harm because he said something to you or about you that was completely inappropriate… when you fail to maintain consistency in discipline - these things will continue to happen and will happen with increasing frequency.
And… besides the fact that separating the children is a ridiculous suggestion… if you think that S2 isn’t going to behave the same way, you’re mistaken. I think the recent events where he has kicked both you and your sister are demonstrative of things to come - and I’ve heard the way he talks to you.
Further, I want to continue to assure you that the things that came out of S1’s mouth last night have never, EVER been uttered by me. I don’t make fun of you to the children. I don’t speak poorly about you in front of the children. I don’t threaten them with physical punishment when they say something inappropriate. When I spoke with S1 last night and managed to get him calmed down, he recognized that his reaction to your telling him “no” to the taffy was wrong. He acknowledged that he wouldn’t do that with me. He acknowledged that he had already had a snack (+ a bonus) earlier in the evening and really wasn’t “entitled” to something more. That said, you must know that his lifetime of expecting and getting what he wants pretty much on demand - particularly where snacks and sweets are concerned from you - is what precipitates such a reaction and is not something that will change overnight. It certainly will not change if you don’t follow the recommendations from the doctor for “only one snack per day and only if he eats his vegetables.” Finally, these types of reactions are learned behaviors, and if you don’t think that he doesn’t learn from your reactions like last night and many other times in the recent and distant past, there is probably no hope for changing the behavior. As for what he said, I’d be willing to bet a lot of money that such language was learned from none-other than his Pop-Pop - who is notorious for making fun of people in such inappropriate ways.
I would welcome a primary custody change, but I know that is something you only “threaten” when you get frustrated with situations. In the future, I beg of you please make absolutely certain that you don’t use living with me as a threat to either of the boys. This is one of the many things that is representative of the types of things that occur to attempt to demonize me in the eyes of the children - whether you do it consciously or unconsciously. As I have said so many times before - it needs to stop and you need to start positive discussions that have things to do with their Dad. You need to stop telling them things like they are going to have to “pick” which one of us to live with when court time comes. Do you have any idea what that kind of (FALSE) pressure does to a 7-year old? Do you have any idea what telling him that he can come live with me without his brother S2 is going to do to him?
You really need to wise up because these kids are going to be a mess unless you change your behavior.
Am I criticizing? Sure I am - but know this, I don’t do so maliciously. When I see things and hear things that these boys are doing and saying to you and others - it saddens me. What makes things worse is your continued ignorance of the root-causes in the face of the convenient excuse that it’s rooted in my living in [home state].
~LM
Just another form of parental alienation. Most normal people would instantly recognize that the following are (hardly) surreptitious efforts to portray dad as a bad guy:
- Ask dad to be phone disciplinarian for events at her home.
- Tell the children that they’ll have to choose where they want to live when they reach a certain age.
- Suggest to the children that their behavior will lead to them living with dad full-time (regardless of how much he wants that for both kids).
Secondarily, you can see more of the same issues I’ve repeatedly written about on the blog with the over-snacking and dietary issues. Let’s also not forget about her persistent projection. Anxiety issues of the day, particularly with S1, are also blamed on me while all of this shit is going on in her home and with her family.
LM,
I am disturbed by what transpired last night as well. S1 didn’t learn to call me “fat and ugly” from my dad. He also never heard my dad tell me I had a “fat ass” or that I am a “bad parent”. I’m skeptical about where he heard it because you have said those things to me.
These past two years have been terrible for me. I just wanted a simple divorce and I wanted it to be as amicable as humanly possible, regardless of what you believe (or want to believe). I wanted to be able to provide the kids with home and all the love that they had before the divorce. Living under this intense scrutiny, criticism, pressure, tension …..it’s not what I envisioned for me and the kids. I didn’t know that you were going to operate this way…..post filing. You have told anyone and everyone who would listen to you that I am “bipolar”, taken emails of a troubled marriage/troubled wife and bandied them for everyone and anyone to see. And you were doing this for years? To what end? Now that the divorce is over, I have to deal with the custody issue over and over and over……my parenting is not only undermined by you, but now by your girlfriend too. The financial hardship of the attorney’s fees.
I’ll never be sorry that I had these children with you. I love them dearly, they mean everything to me. They are amazing little people. I do my best every day to do right by them, but I know I’m not perfect. My focus is constantly on them and trying to do what is best for them. I don’t think you can appreciate how difficult things are at times. Does that mean, I’m complaining? No, I’m not…..I always do what I have to do and make whatever sacrifices necessary, but I never bargained for the absolute heartache you would bring me, never. My parents say they knew you would be like this, but I didn’t…..I honestly thought more of you than this. I still say to this day “I can’t believe LM is doing this”…….it really tarnishes the whole time we spend together rather than just being able to say…we tried, didn’t work, couldn’t work…..we’re moving on…
Thank you for your advice, it’s good advice and I’ll do my best with it. BUT I have some advice for you too, if you want to help the boys, you should move back here and become a part of their lives. You never should have moved, it was wrong and you know it. It may have felt like you were in love or whatever….but there are plenty of women just as good as DW in [custody state]. You can see your kids whenever you want…..any day, any time. I thought you and I would be friends for their sakes. I thought we were both better than this. This is horrible. Nothing makes the kids more unhappy and anxious than us hating each other……and I have news for you, they know even if we don’t say it. They also know that DW and I don’t speak to each other. I spent alot of time in the beginning saying, Your daddy loves you…he’s a good daddy….DW is nice….Daddy works hard….Daddy wishes he was here. I’m not doing that anymore LM because you have disrespected me in every way imaginable and it hurts……..if my Dad makes a joke about you…guess what, the kids will learn that it’s a JOKE!! that’s all it is. You’d help them out by showing your sense of humor.
Like I said, I’ll do my best, but I’ll never be perfect and both kids are always going to be HALF me and HALF you whether we like it or not. Most things about me I like, even if you don’t.
So, now how bout we call a truce until court…..it’s only 3 weeks away, then you can tear me up like you’ve been planning to for 2 years. Will that make you proud?
~PEW
How many times have I posted an email from her followed by the phrase (or similar) - “This is complete and utter bullshit.” ??? Well toss this one on that pile, too. Once you get past the obvious and superficial bullshit - the total victim position mixed with a healthy does of “mother of the millennium” overtures, you start to look at the subtleties.
- The kids have “never” heard such things from her family. It’s flat out a lie, particularly where her psycho-sister and psycho-father are concerned. They’re vicious verbal assailants and their own flesh-and-blood are primary targets. They don’t care who sees or hear, either. My claim is further reinforced by her late email admission that her father openly bad-mouths me in front of the children and that the kids will grow up and “realize it’s a joke.” So, which is it? Does he say those types of things or doesn’t he? He does, you can bet your ass on that. I should be “showing my sense of humor” when that fat, alcoholic pig is ripping me in front of the children.
- Those pleasantries about DW and I she claims to frequently say to the children are most certainly grossly overstated, if not a flat-out lie.
- How can anyone in their right mind claim that they only wanted things to be amicable and that I can see the children anytime I want after what had transpired between 2004 and that point in March of 2006? Her entire existence has been to reduce, as much as possible, my physical interactions with the children.
- She’ll “do her best.” Yes, I know and that’s precisely what I’m afraid of.
The worst part? Is she absolutely believes every single word of the bullshit she spews. Oh, if you missed prior evidence of what I’m talking about, refresh your memory here, here, here, here… (there are links within the post): “Aunt PP is right, You ARE a Psycho!” So much for the children not hearing and repeating crap her family regularly says to one another…
PEW,
As always… you blame me. This is why I didn’t call you back.
I have never ever, ever called you names nor have I ever spoken bad about you in front of the children. However, I have been there when your father (and your sister) have made awful fun of other family members - you included, and do so in front of the children.
So, this merits no further discussion as long as you refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation. The rest of your email is so ridiculously false that I just won’t discuss it with you any further.
When I have a concern, I will send it along via email. If it merits a live discussion, we’ll have one. But I am so unbelievably tired of rehashing the same old BS that you conjure up in your mind and this is one time that I will not re-re-re-re (etc) explain it all to you.
~LM
Look at me! That almost is a move towards low-contact before I ever discover and deploy it more meaningfully!
LM,
It’s fine that you didn’t call me, you already said what you wanted to say anyway. I said that I will “do my best” with the advice that’s the best I can do. I don’t need to talk to you live anyway, my self esteem has taken enough beatings in the past month…..I don’t need you to top it off with some more Fat comments.
~PEW
I didn’t reply. When in doubt, just fabricate that I would call her fat as a parting shot and then go about living her life in Loopy Land doing things her way, you know… with her entire focus and entire life and everything that she does every single minute of every single day of every single year dedicated entirely to what is best for the children.
March 18th, 2010 at 8:17 am
Well, as a formerly obese person, I can tell you her comments about you calling her fat is projection. She calls herself fat (or did at the time), and put you into the category of everyone else looking at her as fat. My guess is that he heard it from PEW herself, telling the boys “your father is so mean he calls me fat and ugly.” Heck, I have called my ex much worse, but never in front of my kids! Nor have I ever told them what he said to me. It isn’t about them, those issues are between PEH and me.
So is she ever going to get over you moving? Whether she agrees or not, deal with it! If the boys are having issue with you being further away, she is only making it worse by constantly talking about it being an issue. My ex took a job 6 hrs away and I didn’t think it was good for the kids, but I NEVER told them that. They would make comments to me about not liking their dad being far away, and I would always defend him to them saying he had to do it for work. You are moved, it is done….get one with it!
March 18th, 2010 at 8:51 am
Yea the funny thing is now that he did move back to have the boys 50% of the time, guess what? She’s still not happy and wants him to move away again. It must really suck to never, ever, be able to be happy. But it just goes to show you that a BPD will always move the bar no matter how many times you jump.
But it does make me laugh to remember how much she has always tried to convince herself that LM and I aren’t really in love, lmfao. “It may have felt like you were in love or whatever….but there are plenty of women just as good as DW” really? That’s a pretty weak attempt at getting us to break up PEW, you should try harder.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:17 am
Interesting observation, Kate. Here’s another relevant one:
I’m So Fat, I’m Disgusted With Myself
March 18th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
“Yea the funny thing is now that he did move back to have the boys 50% of the time, guess what? She’s still not happy and wants him to move away again. It must really suck to never, ever, be able to be happy.”
This is common among many psycho exes and doesn’t even require the cover of BPD. They are unhappy but refuse to examine why they are truly unhappy. It always boils down to: “It’s not MY fault, I’m unhappy. It must be yours!” My DH’s PEW always wanted more, more stuff, a bigger house, more space, more money… But none of it made her happy. Because of that she’s gone through 2 marriages and a live-in boyfriend and the destruction of those relationships always lies with the men… Yet, my husband and I have managed to make our marriage work 4 times as long as theirs did. And while our actual relationship with each other is still only half the length of theirs, we’ve broken up about 6 times fewer in the same timespan.
At a certain point, I almost hope she never realizes exactly what the real problem is. DH says it’s because I’m too nice. If she ever realizes, fully realizes, what she’s done, it would probably devestate her. But I may be applying normal human emotions and reactions onto a different species all together.
March 18th, 2010 at 4:40 pm
I used to despise the surprise demands for “telephonic discipline.” Court orders for regular phone contact were always ignored, except for the times when daughter did something wrong that Mom wasn’t capable of dealing with. PEG would put daughter on the phone after saying “You need to have a talk with her about what she’s done…”
So, pretty much the only times daughter was ever allowed to call Dad was when he was being commanded to scold her.
Needless to say, I always stuck to “we can talk about it next time you come to Dad’s” rather than dole out the telephonic discipline.
March 19th, 2010 at 11:42 am
The PEW in our story did the “I can’t handle the kids” crap all the time when she and DH were together. She’d wait at the door for DH to return from work, thrust the kids in his arms, scream, “I can’t stand the little F*ckers one more minute,” and go to the bar for the evening. After they divorced, she left the boys in DH’s care, so the tables turned and she decided that she wanted custody of just one of the boys. She tried to split them up so many times we lost count. In the end, I think it was a way to get out of paying child support for the boys… if she had custody of one, it would eliminate her obligation. It’s another example of PEW searching endlessly for that one thing that will make her life happy that doesn’t exist.
Although not on topic, my favorite line of the whole post is “I just wanted a simple divorce and I wanted it to be as amicable as humanly possible, regardless of what you believe.” It’s just another phrase from the PEW handbook, but I think they all say it.
PEW translation- We will get along as long as you agree to everything I want, even if you don’t agree with it.”
March 19th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
Again, the story of my life. I can’t tell you how many “I can’t handle the kids” phone calls we’ve gotten, or how many, “The kids are acting up, it’s your fault, YOU talk to them on the phone and HANDLE IT” calls. We’ve also had, “The kids would be fine if you JUST MOVED BACK.” If my husband ever moved back to the location where his children reside, nothing would change because the children would still be in the custody of an unstable person.
And DW — I feel you. PEW tries to convince herself we only stay together so we won’t get told, “I told you so” by everyone. I’m married to the man yet she still refers to me as “the girlfriend.” It’s too hard for her to handle the fact that yes, we do have a healthy loving relationship.
March 20th, 2010 at 8:39 pm
The urge to make reality suit their interpretation is strong. I used to think that I could argue until the PEW would admit they were lying, wrong etc. Silly me…..I realize now that no matter what they see reality as they choose….and that means no amount of arguing or criticism will change it. Now that I am trying to except that fact Im not sure what the next step is. Whether i challenger her lies or not concerning our child, our divorce, or anything else she still continues to do what she wants ( just like your ex appears too ). Maybe I can invent my own reality too where I can block out all this crap so it wont seep into the rest of my life. Easier said than done…..
March 29th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
I have only today stumbled upon this site. Our situation is a little different. My husband has sole physical and legal custody of his and his ex’s 2 girls. I am their stepmother and their primary caregiver (my husband works insanely long hours). Even though his ex ran away with the girls and illegally tried to retain custody and start divorce proceedings, she has given us nearly 5 years of hell, on so many levels. She will never stop trying to get custody of them, and I honestly believe it’s simply because they are her possessions, and of course to try to break up our family. To make a long story longer (sorry), I recognize a LOT of the same behaviors between your ex and my husband’s ex. My belief is that your ex wanted you to move back so you’d end things with your girlfriend, and so you’re easily accessible and easier to control (in her eyes). Is it a common thread with those with Borderline Personality to also have a need to control EVERYTHING? Or maybe that’s BP mixed with a little Narcissistic Personality Disorder too. I hear these disorders of the personality run in packs at times.
April 20th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
I should say “re-stumbled” because I seem to rediscover this site every time the PEW stirs the crazy pot.
April 21st, 2010 at 3:23 pm
So I am reading through the thousands of posts, articles, rants, comments and content posted on this site for the first time. My gosh…amazing. This is probably cheaper than therapy for sure. My one persepective is….could you channel all of the energy you put into this site into something more productive? Start a business, get an MBA, volunteer at a soup kitchen, write a book, etc. This seems like such a huge misuse of time and energy. The only exception would be if keeping this site keeps you out of a padded room, then its worth it. good luck.
April 21st, 2010 at 3:30 pm
How about helping others avoid the pitfalls of those who’ve gone before them? Would you think it was “worth it” then? I’m volunteering here… helping others. Maybe you could go help out at the soup kitchen and we’ll both have something worthwhile covered!
April 21st, 2010 at 10:36 pm
Nicely handled. I probably would not have been quite so diplomatic.
May 15th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
I’ve visited this site several times, and have spent quite a bit of time each time looking through the posts and comments, etc.
Let me say first and foremost: I hear ya.
However, I have to agree with SL - it seems you are putting WAY too much effort into this, and it is fueling your hatred, anger and frustration.
I’m in a similar boat with my ex wife and daughter - I was also in a FAR worse situation as a child. Do you know how many times I saw the inside of a courtroom? do you know how this has adversely affected my life?
you and your ex are destroying the lives of your children. You throw fuel on the fire with your emails to her and with the existence of this website. You know it, and I know it.
It’s HARD to be the bigger person, I know. Really, I do know… and I would have to say that I am on your side. But right now, you are only being the lesser of two evils. How much hostility are you promoting with this website? A TON. I get angry just reading it.
I wish you the best of luck, but this is not how you are going to win the “battle” and the fact that you see it as a battle is even worse. I really do know the type of position you’re in (I say type, because I can’t honestly say I know exactly everything), but this is not healthy.
If you want to do GOOD, like you promote your site to be, make it POSITIVE. Do positive things. Go out there and be a part of groups that promote effective parenting for single/divorced families. Be a “big brother” to some kid that has no chance of survival without you. Do something positive instead of pounding away at the keyboard, hoping to get some “positive feedback/reinforcement” from your readers.
This isn’t about you - this is about the children. I realize this is an outlet for you, but I have to say again, that it seems this is doing you (and the children and the PEW) more harm than it is good.
You are driving your ex crazy, and that is NOT in your best interest. It’s unfortunate, but it’s reality.
Put your energy into something more positive and more useful for the kids.
Again, i don’t know you, and all i can go off of is what you write - but I don’t think that any psychologist (especially child psychologist) would agree that this is worth your time and energy. I say this, because I have lived it - from both the child’s point of view and the parent’s point of view.
I totally respect what you have to say about considering the children in the actions of the parents - you’re dead on there.. but you are not making things any easier. You need to find a different, healthier approach if you want your children to come out somewhat mentally healthy. You CANNOT control your PEW. period.
I hope things work out - if you want, feel free to email me at the email given…
May 15th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
A couple of thoughts Christopher…
#1 - I often have to remind people of the time before “low-contact” - of which this is one of those instances. No one knows better than I how I contributed to the escalation of the situations via back-and-forth email campaigns.
#2 - It’s easy to say that due to the fact that I see this as a “battle” that it makes the situation even worse. Of course, this is unsupportable and I would venture to ask you, how do you see it? An endless campaign of false accusations and completely unnecessary litigation waged primarily by the PEW, all in an effort to separate a father and his children - permanently. Is there some “nicer” term you would give this situation?
#3 - Contrary to the often used term “it’s about the children” - you couldn’t be more wrong. It’s about EVERYBODY. The parents. The children. The family and friends and other loved ones who are impacted collaterally. It’s not “just about the kids.”
Finally - I’ll tell you as I’ve told several others before you… the people who have been helped by this site are very many and I would dare say that they would tell you that this site has helped them in many wonderful ways, not the least of which is how to go about MINIMIZING the upset caused by excessive interaction with a high-conflict ex as demonstrated by this and countless other examples of how NOT to handle situations to end up with a better outcome.
This site isn’t about the PEW and had zero impact on either her or the children given that it remained undiscovered for years prior to its discovery only the latter half of last year.
This site does lots of positive things for lots of people who believed that they were the only ones going through such a ridiculous insane situation. Now, they know they’re not and have been served well by the sharing of the raw reality of a high-conflict divorce and custody situation.
As for the above situation - today it would be handled much differently. The situation would have ended with my talking to S1 and wouldn’t have been followed up by any email contact with PEW.
Live and learn. That’s all we can do.