Orthodondist: All About the Money
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So, it’s quite clear that S1 is going to need braces after a visit to the orthodontist. Cost: $5,000. How we’re going to make that happen is a problem right now, so we’ll have to see what magic I can work. Having not interacted with PEW since the appointment 2-weeks ago, I got this opening email from her. I just had to share this short exchange to add to the insanity that is a Psycho Ex-Wife.
PEW:
What are we doing about our Son’s teeth? How are we going to split it up?
LM: (Not wanting to enter into a negotiation with a terrorist invites…)
I’m open to seeing your suggestions.
PEW:
50/50 which is generous of me because since your DNA is what messed up his teeth in the first place you should really pay for all of it.
This is rich. “All about the money.” Her suggestions are always advantageous to her financially. I mean to say, she never ever makes a suggestion that is ever fair and equitable. If it’s not tilted in her way, even if only a little bit, it’s not a suggestion that originated with the PEW.
Aside from her insult, notice her 50/50 suggestion. You see, when I make more money than her, not only did I have to carry the insurance and pay the first $250 of unreimbursed medical expenses, I paid the UMEs in proportion to our incomes… usually somewhere between 60% and 70%. Now that our incomes have flipped and she is in the 60% - 65% range, she would suggest that the UMEs should be 50-50 split. Of course, no one is surprised, I’m certain of that.
You gotta laugh at her insane DNA logic. You also gotta laugh at how much she projects when she ever accuses anything I do to be motivated by money. I do have to give her some (facetious) credit, though. This could be the first time she’s ever referred to one or both children as “our” children and not “MY” children.
Needless to say, I didn’t respond after that. It will all be determined when we go to the hearing in August.
July 8th, 2009 at 11:54 am
If bad things happen it is all our fault, if good things occur then they take all of the credit! I love that type of mentality! It is so PEW!
I am surprised that she did not say you should pay for more since I am sure you owe her back child support and you were such an abusive husband and on and on and on!
July 8th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Check your current order, and make sure that there is not wording in there that allows her to just run right out and sign the kids up for orthodontia anyway.
If there is anything “silent”, or even “ambiguous” about the way that it is worded, it may be worth it to you to file a temporary restraining order specifically enjoining her from signing any financial agreements with any orthodontist. Then, petition for a clarifying order in conjunction with your current CS modification.
I know, I know… she shouldn’t legally be able to obligate you, anyway. You “should” be able to fight that down the road. If she unilaterally decides to obligate you, you “should” be able to fight it in the future.
REALITY: you won’t be able to fight it in the future. So protect yourself now, and restrain her from obligating you. And, make sure that D-Mac is aware of this and puts appropriate wording into the support order modification to permanently prevent it from happening.
The “braces” gambit is a game they all play. It’s straight from the Crazy Ex-Wife Handbook. I am only surprised that it took your PEW this long. They usually take an express train straight from the courthouse to the orthodontist’s office. It’s so prevalent that I can often spot the children of divorce at any given elementary school just by the braces on their teeth. (Non-divorced families wait till middle school, if ever.)
July 8th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
I’ve already conferenced at length with the Ortho.
They’ll do nothing unless someone signs on as a “responsible financial party.” You and I both know that PEW won’t rush right out and sign that paperwork herself as that would make her 100% responsible for the fees.
I’m the one who took S1 to the Ortho and knew in advance that he’d need them based upon my own inspection which was confirmed by the dentist (who I take them to as well).
I want him to get the braces, it’s just a matter of figuring out how to pay for them.
I’m actually considering offering up the “downpayment” and having her sign the paperwork. I’ll pay the “downpayment” in proportion to the income and by the time the rest comes due, the court matter would have resolved the UMEs. Then I don’t have to worry about the collection calls when she fails to pay the balance.
Logic:
#1 - I pay first, which will make her happy.
#2 - My paying first is contingent on her having the “power and authority” of being the primary contact when she signs the paperwork.
I wonder if it’ll work? LOL.
Worst case scenario is that I have to pay something more than the current income ratio. I doubt that happens, but it’s family court, so it could. If it shakes out “in proportion to income” - well, mine will be paid by that point.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
We are in the “ortho” stuff too. I don’t know how, but my DH got ordered to pay for the health insurance–we pay the first $250 per kid–meaning 1k out of pocket because I have 4kids with PB.
Some ideas: I have found a dr. here in “state 2″ who will put braces on for much less than 5k, which seems to be standard in “state 1″, especially in “D” place. Not sure if you can get care for you kiddo in “state 2″? I can give you names of orthos we’ve checked out.
PB claims he can’t afford his share, which in state 2 would be about 100 a month for like 2 years. I’ve waited to get the braces put on, hoping things would change for him. DD turned 14 this past month though.
He seems to have lots of money to pay lawyers….guess I should make that ortho appt anyway? No clue.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Well, I’m just the nicest (or dumbest) ex-wife ever because I just finished paying $5700 for orthodontics and never asked my ex for a penny. I did use child support money to make many of the monthly payments, even though our order state that he is to pay 80% of uncovered medical, dental, orthodontics and vision in addition to childsupport. Why, you ask? Because I’m just tired of dealing with the asshole and didn’t feel like more rounds in court. He would have thrown himself into disability or something to get out of paying. Not worth it.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
50-50 is standard. no matter the incomes, you usually split uninsured medical costs 50-50.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
BTDT… oldest stepson needs a 2nd set of braces - not covered by insurance. PEW is responsible for medical expenses up to $250 then half. we offered to pay the $250 for her and our half - she said she didn’t have the $, so stepson won’t be getting 2nd set … but, he is getting a car next week from … what for it … wait for it … yes, PEW!
July 8th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Sarah, I’d like to know what state you’re in- and move there.
We split uninsured medical expenses 37/63 right now. Before the 2007 modification it was split 79/21, but of course PEW never paid her measly 21% anyway, so it didn’t matter.
50/50 is not standard and if somebody has proof that it should be, please show it to me because I’d really love to get our order modified.
How typically PEWish, Mister-M. You should pay for the braces because YOUR DNA screwed up the kids’ teeth. I can’t believe she had the nerve to say that.
July 8th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Sarah… not in my state, nor in most other states which use the shared-income model.
I have 5-years of experience being ordered by the court to pay in proportion to income. Thanks.
July 8th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Look into a Dental Credit program called CareCredit.com. If you each applied for $2500 of coverage, paid it all up front to the orthodontist, then you’d be able to pay it off at your leisure with ZERO arguments about who has the money or not. If she gets poor and “can’t” pay, it’s her credit record.
OR…pay visit to visit. The first three months of whatever you charge is interest free…you might could handle the charges in that fashion, with more comfort and NONE of the interest.
Only catch is that your provider must be on their “network.” Something to look into.
July 8th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
We are doing that dance with braces. The insurance and us paid out money for the last set on my step-daughter. PEW had to put them on. Then PEW got bored after 6 months (didn’t have time to take her to appointments, we live 5 states a way) and had them taken off and pocketed the insurance money (and ours) that was refunded to her from the ortho. Now, my SD showed up to us this summer visit after not being allowed to visit us for over a year, needing much need dental work and so we took her. Guess what, SD needs the braces put back on. PEW is mad and says its all are fault. and PEW says she is mother of the year!
July 9th, 2009 at 8:49 am
really? wow. i guess that IS just our state or at least just my court order and the way we’ve been doing it for some reason? (even though i don’t think i’ll ever be able to come close to matching my ex’s six figure income) oh well, pick my battles. sorry for the misinformation, there’s no need to get testy.
July 9th, 2009 at 8:55 am
PS and when i say “that’s the way we’ve been doing it,” i mean that’s the way we Should be doing it, i’ve Never been reimbursed for any uninsured medical costs—Rx copays, doc visit copays, anything—even though i’ve always supplied ex with receipts. but it’s either just suck it up or pay an attorney the same amount i’d get reimbursed to handle it so it cancels out and ends up not being worth it (bc my atty doesn’t like filing for contempt).
blah. the rules only apply to them when they like them. when they don’t then they just ignore them. it’s frustrating.
July 9th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Yes, we too did the dance of the othodontist (ALL 3 boys at the same time!!) It did not seem to matter that they were 15,13,& 9 at the time. Of the 3 of them the 9yr old then had to deal with braces and so on until he was 16.
My biggest gripe is none of them actually ‘needed’ braces, but they all believed the long tail of the orthodontist about this that and the other. The oldest one’s main reason was because he had a space between his front teeth, which was fixed after the braces, but since he never wore a retainer later on - poof, the space is back again. Go figure. I truly believe the orthodontists search out divorce kids through their regular dentists.
When I was growing up braces were only for the kids who had REALLY BAD teeth, or over bites. Now apparently they are for everyone, and absolutely EVERY child should really have them. Hafrumph
July 9th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Both of my kids needed braces as well. Our Ortho had an interest free payment plan. They figured out how long the treatment was going to be (2 years) divided the cost by 24 and that was our monthly payment. Worked out great for us. braces came off. Kids had straight teeth. and we owed no money. If your ortho doesn’t have a plan like this maybe shop around alittle?
July 9th, 2009 at 9:51 am
RE: unreimbursed medical expenses…
If you are in the state of Texas, and if you are a WOMAN, you can walk into any local arm of the Office of the Attorney General Child Support Enforcement office (you can call the state-sponsored toll free number to find the location nearest you) and if you have all of your receipts with you, a state employee will sit with you and help you organize them, help you fill out a form listing them all, and file a Contempt charge from the OAG on your behalf to beat the money out of your ex. The state-sponsored citation will be from the OAG office, not from you, and it will require that your ex answer the citation within 20 days, or the medical expenses will automatically be garnished from his wages. You don’t have to prove that he did NOT reimburse you, the burden of proof is on him, to prove that he DID. The answer to the citation requires that your ex provide a list of information (receipts, cancelled checks, insurance forms, pay stubs, tax returns, etc.) as long as your arm — in other words, it is state-sponsored harrassment, and your ex is considered “guilty” of contempt unless and until he proves himself innocent by providing this mountain of information. Plus if you don’t live near enough to one of the branch offices, the state employee will mail you the forms, and then you can call back, and they will guide you over the phone with filling in the forms and organizing your receipts. They will provide you a fax number to send it all in, and you can even ask to be reimbursed for the cost of faxing it; and then the citation will be issued to your ex just the same.
If you are a MALE and call the OAG Child Support enforcement office, they will treat you like crap and wonder out loud why you are abusing the system to harrass and bully the sweet innocent mother of your children who is lucky she somehow got away from living with you you useless abusive bastard; and they don’t care why you are calling, they have one answer for you: PAY UP, JERK, AND QUIT WASTING OUR TIME.
I know it sounds as though I’m biased… but really, I’m not. I’m just very very aware of the bias that exists. The difference in tone between the way a man is treated when he calls the OAG office in Texas and the way a woman is treated is noticeable, and awful.
July 9th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Yikes JB, that’s just plain not fair! it should be the same help for both genders!
July 9th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Oh yeah, Mr-M, as to “signing on as the responsible party”… that’s exactly what I was trying to warn you about.
I realize that you are something of an anomaly, in that you are in contact with the ortho yourself.
The way it’s usually done is ex-wife takes the kids to the ortho without ever telling the Dad, lists Dad as the “responsible party”, (and she can do this, since she has access to his SSN), signs either her name or his (and it doesn’t matter if she signs his name), and the kids get braces; and Dad gets the bills.
If the Dad then tries to go back and say “Hey, wait a minute”… in most cases, he will merely be painted as a jerk who doesn’t want to take care of his children’s “needs”, and the ortho office will ding HIS credit report for non-payment because its HIS SSN on file.
That’s how it usually works. You are lucky that your PEW is not all that blessed in the brains department, or she would have figured this one out and done it a long time ago.
July 9th, 2009 at 10:12 am
JB… I’ve had a similar experience to that before when PEW would use my name and SS to list me as the responsible party for emergency room visits.
What’s nice is that when I would get calls about failures to pay and am told that I’m “listed as the responsible party” - I’d simply tell them that I am not, I don’t live in the area, I wasn’t there that day, and someone forged my name on the documents. Further, I could prove (living so far away) that I wasn’t in the area that day.
In the few cases that’s happened, I simply gave them PEW’s information and informed them that she’s the responsible party as she brought them to the hospital.
It hasn’t happened again in years after that.
In conferencing with this Ortho, it’s clear to me that they are first and foremost interested in covering their own asses and I made it abundantly clear that nothing will be signed on “my behalf.”
July 9th, 2009 at 11:21 am
it’s all so crazy… in the meantime, the child is the one who suffers while the adults play stupid games. I pawned my first wedding ring/set to pay for my daughter’s school stuff. The ring was appraised at $13k, I got $2k for it. I didn’t want to battle my ex in court so I found a way to pay the expenses.
Our state is a proportional state based on incomes… I make 4k a year, my ex makes 150k a year. Hmmmm…
My kids never got braces, even though they could have used a bit of straightening… good thing they have my dna… hee, hee… just had to add that comment… wow!
July 9th, 2009 at 11:56 am
My state goes by guideline, not proportion of income. My children’s father was suicidal — so if the state had tracked him down and forced him to pay (as they were perfectly willing to do), there is every chance that he would have killed himself. I am not saying that to be dramatic — those were simply my circumstances at the time. So no, I have never ever received guideline support from him, nor one dime of medical expenses reimbursed.
That was almost eighteen years ago. I have five kids — at the time, the youngest one was one year old. Three of them eventually needed braces. One had a non-malignant brain tumor; another was hearing-impaired; two needed long-term treatment for scoliosis (from his DNA, btw). Over the years we had broken arms, broken legs, cuts requiring stitches, anaphylactic shock reactions to allergies… it’s all part of raising a large family. My children’s father never paid one dime toward one bit of this.
I made about 12k a year when he left, as a computer consultant who mostly stayed at home with my kids and traded babysitting during the hours that I had to be on site. I make over $150k a year now. I crossed the “six figure” benchmark about 7 years ago during a wonderful stint in the aerospace industry; I have since left that to become a Divorce Coach.
I am a product of the “true women’s movement” — the one that took place during the 1970s, when we women were told that we could do anything. I am blatantly biased against women who remain victims and sit on their backsides complaining that “their” child support check isn’t big enough. I am unabashedly unsympathetic toward women who would rather whine about the size of the “entitlement”… these are the very women who have made the cause for equality more difficult. It’s not men who are holding us down any longer — we women are doing it to ourselves.
I realize that this is off-topic (sorry, Mr-M), but I put myself out there to say that when we gripe about how “unfair” the system is, we must acknowledge that the biases run deep, they are far beyond the breadth of the family court system alone… and, it is incumbent upon us to reveal our own biases as well. These are mine.
It is “all about the money”. There are far too many people out there who use their children as little conduits to tunnel into their ex-spouse’s wallet. I see it all the time in my business.
July 9th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
It’s bias…but not just gender bias….also economic bias. “Pay up Jerk” so we can keep the federal gravy train rolling and keep our jobs and get raises. These people are incented to MAXIMIZE collections…they do not have one single performance metric associated with being fair or correct. Just imagine them with their hands over their ears yelling at you “PAY UP PAY UP PAY UP”….a pretty good characterization in my experience.
What would happen to all of these family court employees if we took all the child support that is uncontested and paid regularly and took it out of the system? How about if we gave every good father that wanted it and could provide it 50% custody and then adjusted the child support collections…..bingo…millions upon millions of tax dollars suddenly saved (probably to be wasted elsewhere but c’est la vie) and children who spend more time with their fathers — could it really be that simple?
July 10th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Okay, like Sara, our split is 50/50 on what ever insurance doesn’t cover. I take care of dental insurance premiums and he takes care of medical(he’s retired military, so it works out better this way for both of us). I paid half of the ortho and ex paid half, very simple. Of course, my divorce was..not amicable, but fair and he wasn’t exactly psycho(I come here because my current husband’s ex is psycho)
As for the OAG of Texas…they’ve been great, to be honest. And I’ve been on both sides of the fence. At first, they helped me get child support for my kids(long story, didn’t get it originally in the divorce, didn’t want it…that changed later on for good reason). Now, my youngest child lives with her dad, and they’ve been great really with helping me make sure everything on my part(yes, I’m the one now paying child support) is up to date and current. So, it’s not just women collecting support from men..it does go the other route as well. They’ve helped my ex make sure he gets his money from me. Truth is, they’re about the custodial parent getting support for the kids from the non-custodial parent, no matter what the sex is.
July 13th, 2009 at 11:59 am
My PEG signed a contract in the Ortho’s office stating that we would each pay half of the unreimbursed costs (I carry the insurance, even though we have no orders regarding who will insure or pay for dental/ortho).
At PEGs request, we declined the opportunity to save 10% by paying up front, and against my preference, chose to be billed monthly on our credit cards.
Within a couple months, I get a call from the Ortho — her card’s been declined, and they cannot reach her. Can I get in touch with her for them? LOL.
I sent the requisite email message requesting that she straighten things out — no response, of course.
I asked them to ding her credit and start a collection. The clerk from the Ortho office tells me that she has to begin collections and ding the credit files for BOTH of us. You see, even though there was a written agreement that we each pay half, we are cosigners on a single contract. “That’s the only way we do it.” ARRGH!
So, I’ve been paying her share, so the kid’s treatment won’t stop and my credit won’t get trashed. I hoping to get an order forcing her to reimburse me when we finally get a judgment (hearing delayed AGAIN until August 4 now).
Grandparents reported back to me that daughter has made statements like “Dad should pay, he makes more money and, (note the similarities to Mister-M’s PEW), “Dad’s the one who needed braces so I got it from him so he should pay.”
PSYCHO!!
July 25th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
I guess I actually have to stick up for your PEW here. At least she is willing to pay anything for the ortho stuff. My husbands PEW is ordered to pay the first 500 Dolars a year total for the kids. She has currently only paid 58.86 and owes us 254.20. The sad thing is that this is the only support she has to pay for them. When we finally got the custody settled we ended up giving her a car (one we bought, not one that they already jointly owned) and saying she didn’t have to pay child support. In return she signed for joint custody but we actually physically have the kids about 63 percent of the time and she has them about 37 percent. We provide the health insurance and all she has to pay is the first 500 dollars a year in UMEs and it is split 50/50 after that. But, that isn’t even the end of it because you would think she could actually find it in herself to pay something for her children. She lives in government housing rent free, has no job, somehow gets food stamps, and says she has put the kids on medicaid in her state. Yet another attempt not to pay anything for her children. And, she just went on vacation for almost 2 weeks and is going to a concert. I know I shouldn’t care, but it’s annoying when I have to sacrifice things so that I make sure her children can get all of the health care that they need.
August 7th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Hey we get it. My husbands ex abaondoned him and the kids for 9 months all the while getting busted by her own 12 year old for lying why she couldn’t see him. She swears she doesn’t remember any of it. She told the youngest over the phone that we had alcohol in our bedroom fridge. He looks in there all the time and she is never inside our home, yet she had him convinced it was full of alcohol! She filed a false child support claim, she scammed churches and most recently they got a notice her income wasn’t added in their last joint return and that her employer had only paid 27.00 taxes for her that year. The tax place said it was their fault and they paid all the fees and penalties, but when told she has to still pay her taxes, she first never contacted back, then he caught her and she screamed curse words and said “screw you I am not paying or signing the ammended return, go ahead call the irs and tell them to call me, take me to court I ain’t F’in paying it!” They did get her karaoke business income on which since his was the only income listed he took the hit for. Upon calling he was told he is responsible for 1/2 of it and that he HAS no way to file married but seperate now, he can just file the changes without her. She gets away with everything. I told Mark to take her to court if he has to pay half of it, because he already took the hit for her karaoke income.
August 10th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
[...] JB - if you’re reading… expect the next confrontation to be about PEW’s attempted unilateral decision to pursue the braces issue. Today, I am going to be drafting a letter for the orthodontist. For the back-story: CLICK HERE! [...]
August 10th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
My ex took our son to the orthodontist and told me that it was approved by the state (which means the state pays for the braces since he’s a special needs child). Sure enough, she didn’t perform the follow through and I am stuck with the 4000.00 bill. No one should feel too much sympathy for me because the state pays a subsidy for adopting him, but it would be nice if she had just waited a couple of months for the approval.
I wonder if she would have if she knew she was paying the bill.
August 21st, 2009 at 5:00 pm
[...] are waiting on several other reports. I’ve previously written about this situation being all about the money - at least the power it has to make one’s life very, very difficult. She tends to wield [...]
August 24th, 2009 at 11:14 am
I thought the comment about the DNA was funny…your ex wife has a sense of humour.
August 24th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Ya think so, Dan? I guess if you think that making fun of your own child’s crooked-tooth is humorous.