2005 Thanksgiving & Christmas Planning Debacle, Part 2
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It would seem as though you could feel the discussions detailed in 2005 Thanksgiving & Christmas Planning Debacle, Part 1 were right on the edge of slipping away. When you consider that mixed amongst these emails were those from the Maternal Gatekeeping post and those which follow here. These other issues would serve as the excuse the psycho ex-wife would need to pull her mind-changing games with regard to the custody agreements, or should I say deviations this time, as she had before and as she has many times since.
The last emails on the holidays ended on 11/1/2005 but would continue a little over a week later. The mess that comprised the maternal gatekeeping post occurred on 11/8/2005. On 11/11/2005, I’d get the first email in a series that would make everything escalate as they normally do around the holidays. It’s also another one of those “common themes” we seem to encounter as I recount my stories here at thepsychoexwife.com. When the child has something that is of the ultimate importance that is scheduled to take place on your parenting time. In this case - someone’s birthday party.
LM,
S1 got the invitation in the mail. The party is 11/19 a Sat. He asked if he could go, I said you’re with Dad that weekend. He started to cry, I said I would talk to you and the rest he came up with himself. Feel free to write “another” letter to [evaluator3]. I’m sure she’s already figured you out…..it’s not that hard to do.
~PEW
I don’t recall one thing about what preceded this. My guess is a phone call where S1 expressed anger and disappointment and likely begged me to go to this party. Less than 1 hour later…
LM,
If you are coming up here for Thanksgiving weekend, why can’t we just trade weekends so S1 can go to this party? He’s so upset about this. Do the right thing. These things are important too. You’ll still get your time with them, in fact you’ll have an extended weekend.
This is not my fault. The kid got an invitation to a party. I need to know what you are going to do so I can RSVP.
~PEW
I can tell you I was very reluctant. Of course, the “right thing” is always what she wants to happen. Always. This is what I refer to as a “floodgates” moment. If you let this birthday party thing happen one time, you can bet your ass that the expectation on the part of BOTH the PEW and the child is going to be that you’re expected to sacrifice your limited time with the children every single time they get invited to something. I would make exceptions for things I thought were particularly important to the boys from time-to-time. Birthday parties are one of those things which happen with enough frequency that an every-other-weekend parent can’t lose control of the situation and be railroaded into allowing it every time. I expressed my wishes while coming up with a reasonable suggestion (to a normal person it would have been reasonable).
PEW,
Let’s try to keep it simple… from my perspective, there will always be time for S1 to go to parties. So what I would like to do to head future situations like this off at the pass - in the future, S1 needs to be told “no” because there will be other parties and spending time with dad is more important. I say this simply to avoid any future confusion or problems. This way, you don’t have to tell S1 to ask me and I don’t have to worry about being put on the spot without you and I having had the opportunity to talk first. This takes care of that.
So, this time, I will acquiesce and leave S1 home so that he can go to his party. However, I will be up to pick up S2. If there is any chance you could meet in [halfway exchange point] on Friday evening, that would be super.
~LM
I put it out how these situations will be handled in the future while green-lighting S1 going to the party this time. I’ll just spend one-on-one time with S2 for the weekend and we’ll have a blast.
LM,
No I will not tell him “no”, I will leave that to you. I’ve talked to many people who have been divorced and in this very situation and their ex-spouses “worked with them” to do what is best for the children. Trading weekends here and there should not be an imposition, as you are making it. It just so happens too that S2 was invited to a party and it was “your” weekend, except I didn’t see the invitation until after the party had taken place. We also missed S1’s school hayride, because it was your weekend. Flexibillity is the key word here LM.
As far as meeting you in [exchange point] why would I do that? I have some news for you….my car is leased and I will not be putting 400 miles on it every other weekend only to me screwed at the end of the lease because you moved to [home state]. Also do you realize that it costs $40 everytime I drive out there and that’s not included in the child support that you are trying to have reduced at this time. So what are your plans for Thanksgiving? Just having them for the day? That’s my weekend actually.
As for Christmas, I realized that is my weekend. My mom has off the whole week so she’s available to watch them. You can have them on your regularly scheduled weekend, which is New Years.
Flexibility LM….
Thanks,
PEW
This is the mind of the PEW. During the school year, I get every other weekend with the boys at the time. In her distorted brain, I should be upset that the children miss an occasional birthday party and, oh my GOSH! S1 missed a school hayride! What a horrible parent I am. You know, because the children do nothing when they’re with us and we have no plans ever and all I do is plunk them down and ignore them the entire time. Well, that’s what she has fabricated in her twisted head, anyway. Those things are way more important than time with their father. Oh, and with the move-whine again…
BUT - she makes no bones about her position. Bow to my will or I will interfere with opportunities for you to spend time with the children, despite all of the pissing and moaning I do about you ‘being there for the children’ and ’spending time being their father’ and ‘helping her out with the parenting duties’ and ‘I never get a fucking break’ and all that. Is there any question about why the name psycho is perfect for describing how she operates?
So, I say YES HE CAN GO and I will only pick up S2, and that’s just not fucking good enough for the queen of mean.
She sends another…
LM,
Just want to let you know, I told the boys the plan for next weekend and S2 started screaming saying he’s not going.
~PEW
Yeah, because we all know she probably told him with no negative influence or parental alienation spin. If she only could fathom how much her efforts are abusive. But hey, like father like daughters, no question about that.
I decided I’m done playing in her arena and send her this…
PEW,
Okay, since I no longer desire to play your mind-changing games, here’s how we’ll play it…
Every other weekend until our matter is settled in court. I will simply save this email as more evidence of your game-playing and desire to take time that I could have with the boys away from me. It may mean nothing now, but down the road they will see exactly how (as I’ve been saying) you manipulate situations and use them as a tool to make life difficult and minimize my time with them.
SO… to avoid going back and forth with you…
S1, unfortunately, cannot go to the party and I will explain to him exactly why.
I will return the boys to your house the night of Thanksgiving.
Christmas we’ll do as you have described.
Sorry we couldn’t be more flexible, but I’ve had enough of your threats, your manipulation, and your using the boys as a weapon.
Good night.
~LM
Keep in mind that I have to change plans that I was laying the groundwork for doing during the Thanksgiving weekend (at least) because others’ decision, particularly my mother, hinged on the availability of the children. I wasn’t going to drag their plans into my mess, so I really had to make the decision to - make the decision and I did.
LM if you do that to S1, you are putting your relationship with him at risk. I have always been and will be flexible with you. I just for the life of me can’t understand why, if you’re coming up for Thanksgiving, you can’t just switch weekends with me. I think you are losing your mind. You had 40% custody of these boys before you moved. How in the hell can you say, I’m trying to minimize your time with them?? Did I move you? You are delusional…..it’s a little scary. Please save the emails. I’m looking forward to how this will look for you in court too.
Also, I’ve email you twice about plans for Christmas and you haven’t even acknowledged my emails or helped me figure out what the plans are, so I haven’t changed my mind about anything. I simply had to make arrangements and I’m tired of waiting around for you to tell me what you are going to do. So it’s not mind changing games, it’s you haven’t communicated with me.
~PEW
Fuck you, nutcase. Fabricate much? It’s November 13th, who did she think she was kidding?
PEW,
I’m tired of your flip-flopping. We agree to time on Thanksgiving and now you say no. We’re trying to arrange something for Christmas, but now you say you’ll just leave them with your mom because you can… all while again pontificating about what *I* should be doing that *you* believe is in the best interests of the children. Your ongoing actions repeatedly demonstrate an inability to foster a good relationship with the other parent - something I have never done to you nor has my family. Sadly, the same can’t be said about you and yours.
I can’t make plans when you change your mind by using the children as a weapon against me, so I will just stop trying to be the “flexible” that you allege you are (but are not and history proves that) and explain to the children why I have to take the time I can get with them… because I can’t seem to get anymore available time with them when it becomes available.
And you can dispense with your ongoing “mindgames” about my relationship with the boys. It continues to be undermined by you and your family. And I have no problems with how it will look in court. Using this as an example - it will look like this:
- - We had an agreement regarding the boys and Thanksgiving weekend.
- - When you didn’t get what you demanded, you reneged again.
- - Rather than allow me to have the boys Christmas week, you claimed you would simply leave them with your mother - again because you didn’t get what you demanded.
- - S1 couldn’t go to his party because I can’t make arrangements due to your constant changing of mind and inability to stick to an agreement.
That’s exactly what it will look like.
See you Friday. Now that the arrangements are “set in stone” I will not reply to any more of your bantering unless it involves you not taking away my Thanksgiving time and working with me to arrange time with the boys during Christmas week. Otherwise, we go with the agreement as it stands because that’s the way you want it, not because it’s the way I want it.
~LM
SO THERE! lol…
LM,
You were coming [custody state] on Thanksgiving right? You asked if you could have them an extended period of time, I said yes. I asked you to trade weekends with me so S1 could go to this party, or you could STAY [in custody state] and take him yourself. They shouldn’t be traveling to [home state] every other weekend anyway, but that’s going to change after we go to court. Did I not call you last time they both had a friday off and offer that long weekend? I met you in [exchange point] which cost me $40 of which is NOT included in my child support. You are not flexible at all and you do not and never have had the children’s best interest at heart. This is all about LM. It’s very sad. For what it will cost you in gas to go back, you could get a hotel room up here, but you don’t care enough to spend a weekend away from DW.
Don’t presume this is going to look bad for me in court. The facts speak for themselves. You gave up 40% custody to move to [home state], left a good, stable job to move in with your girlfriend of only a few months. There’s not another way to look at this. You don’t care and everyone knows it.
The only reason I flip flopped is because you were playing games by saying you’re going to take S2 when you know full well, he was going to freak. Go ahead and tell S1 he can’t go to this party……that’s flip flopping and not a very good message to a child whose father is already “in his mind” absent from his life.
STop hating me and trying to stick it to me and just do the right thing for a change.
~PEW
She just can’t stop herself. She’s enjoying - literally ENJOYING - every opportunity she can to try and mindfuck me and the children as she projects her hatred to anyone and anything she can, rather than accept that she’s the one so deep in the pits of such hell that she spares no one with her words and her actions. She actually lies to herself to make it fit into the hallucinations that are her version of events.
On 11/14/2005 she sends:
LM,
We should have a court date before Christmas anyway, so we can settle the whole matter regarding Christmas then. Do what you feel you must do with regard to next weekend, it’s just heartbreaking that you are this selfish.
Here’s your answers:
Thanksgiving: Maybe
Christmas: Maybe after we go to court.~PEW
Oh, no, honey - I already made that decision.
PEW,
Okay, then since I cannot plan, I will take Thanksgiving as a “no” and I will pick up both boys next weekend. I’m sorry, but you leave me no choice. I have too many people involved in making arrangements for you to hold me hostage again.
Thank you for your reply. I will let S1 know when I call.
~LM
LM,
Ok, that makes a whole lot of sense. You claim to WANT to spend time with them and I’m offering you Thanksgiving day through Sunday in exchange for this upcoming weekend, and you’re saying no?? That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me or anyone else.
~PEW
Of course not. She is who she is and the people who she surrounds herself with are complete knuckleheads. Not to mention, they probably have no idea about how this was truly going down at the time. Notice she completely disregards the reality that we were good to go until this party situation came up. I’m okay with S1 going to the party, so that should be the only change, I’ll spend my weekend with S2. From there, she blew it the hell up, not me. I’m good with just taking the time allotted until something changes via court.
LM,
The reports will be in by Thanksgiving. You should tell Donna to file for a court date, so we can get in there before the holidays and get this straightened out since you think that’s the way to go.
I’m done bargaining with you. S1 is going to be broken hearted when you do this to him. I wasn’t asking you to trade weekends because it’s GOOD for me.
You and I will not speak again about this.
~PEW
And there you have it, the real answer. “BECAUSE IT’S GOOD FOR ME!” Not the kids. Not their father. It’s all about her, just as it always has been.
As usual, I wouldn’t shut up and neither would she and we’ll share it all in Part 3.
January 20th, 2010 at 10:26 am
My favorite part of PEWs disorder is how she throws things out that show how she clearly only thinks of how things impact her and no one else, ever. It cost you $40 to meet us halfway, really? Did you process that through your brain and realize it cost us $80 every time we picked up, and another $80 every time we dropped off the kids? And no, that money wasn’t considered when they calculated child support, or any of the other expenses we had that she couldn’t even imagine. Of course if she recognized that, she wouldn’t be able to talk about how cheap LM is to everyone and how he never pays anything for his children.
Or how about complaining about her attorneys fees or having to buy clothes for the kids, yes, because our attorney worked for free and the kids went naked at our house, clearly we never had to pay anything. So fucking retarded, always about her and never acknowledging how much we did for the kids, or paid for anything, and gave up things to make sure the kids didn’t go without.
January 20th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Of course PEW’s never think of what the other person pays, because in their world they’re the victim and the dad is the selfish bastard.
Last time we were in court with our PEW her 15 min tirade, after she realized she wasn’t getting what she thought, was all about what SHE had to pay. Oh, let’s forget the $968 a month support she gets because she has a mortgage(lol, it’s her parents house), bills, food and clothes to buy and he doesn’t help. Again, LOL, yeah he doesn’t do anything. If any of them lost their victim status then they would have to look in the mirror and admit what delusional pieces of crap they are……….never gonna happen.
January 20th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
Oh ha ha! Dear DW and LM, this is just a copy of what my life was like with my husband’s PEW (before he left). They are ALL the same, so much so its just scary. We’ve gotta laugh, or we would go insane! Do you think they have a secret website so that all the PEWs of the world can swap details so they can all do the same, creepy, selfish, bitter and twisted things to get to the fathers by using the poor kids as weapons? I do!
PEW, when you read this latest post, why dont you actually stop and admit to yourself that you ARE hurting your children!!! Stop being such a selfish person and do something good for a change. Let them enjoy their dad and his family, who love them to bits, just as they have a right to enjoy being with you and your family. For their sake?
January 21st, 2010 at 9:54 am
I agree that the PEW is off her rocker, however, I would like to point out something to LM: You say to the PEW: “Let’s try to keep it simple… from my perspective, there will always be time for S1 to go to parties. So what I would like to do to head future situations like this off at the pass - in the future, S1 needs to be told “no” because there will be other parties and spending time with dad is more important.”
You are running the risk of being guilty of the same thing you accuse her of: only looking at things from YOUR perspective. It’s only from your perspective that he can “go to a party anytime.” But what about S1’s perspective? He shouldn’t have to miss a party to spend time with you. This is one of the unfortunate things about divorce. It’s not S1’s problem that you married a crazy person, nor that you had to move away. It becomes his problem when you say “there will be time to go to parties, spending time with me is more important.” To him, it isn’t more important, because kids want their social time and deserve to regular interactions. Imagine how he feels when all his classmates are talking about a fun party on Monday, and he is the social outcast. This breeds resentment toward you and it is in no way the PEW’s fault that you couldn’t handle a weekend without your son.
My bf and I run into this issue frequently as his teenage daughter has an active social life and lives 2 hours away. He would NEVER force her to disengage from her active and healthy life to “guilt” or “force” her into coming to see him. Sometimes you have to accept the fact that other people (even small children) are developing social ties of their own and that less time will be spent with the parental units as they get older and develop naturally.
I’m sorry, because I agree with you most of the time, but this was a scenario where both the PEW and YOU end up looking like a bunch of selfish adults using the emotions of a child as bait. I’m sure you can try to justify this by saying, “the PEW pushed me to be this way,” but then you will be guilty of the same “projection” that you accuse her of so often.
I’m sure it’s hard to remain objective, but the burden of being objective is on YOU since you are the one who started this website.
January 21st, 2010 at 10:13 am
TrophyGF, I appreciate your feedback, but (of course) will disagree.
You see, I’m all too aware about the critical importance of a father in children’s lives. Further, given the limited nature of our time together at that point in time AND given his age of 7 - I won’t be guilty of “doing what PEW does.” The first reason is that I’ve demonstrated then and continue to demonstrate today, a certain amount of reasonable flexibility where the children and activities are concerned. The second is that there may be other things planned with me that I deem be a priority. Sacrificing a rare weekend parenting-child period better be due to something bigger than 2 hours at a Chucky Cheese, unless the parent with custody that weekend is okay with a decision otherwise.
If I were to look at things from a 7-year old’s perspective, I would eat candy for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I would stay up until they passed out from being tired every night. I wouldn’t do homework… ever. I would come and go to my friends as I pleased. Need I go on?
My position is and always will be that with certain, appropriate exceptions, time with mom and dad (and whatever plans THEY deem appropriate) takes priority over everything else. THAT’S what happens when you get divorced. Frankly, giving the children the type of power you suggest is the wrong thing to do in my mind.
I would suggest you not apply situations with teens to those children aged 4-7, there is a rather dramatic difference in developmental issues relative to each age group that require much different considerations.
As usual, you take missing the occasional party to extremes with your contention that he will end up a “social outcast.” That’s ridiculous on its face. Children of divorce suffer sacrifices, too, and the mere suggestion that they should suddenly be given decision-making power, particularly at younger ages, is what breeds selfish, unmotivated, entitled children - the very same children I imagine many of us see around us every single day.
Neither my children nor DW’s children go to every single party their invited to simply because they were invited. Setting a precedent that the children’s plans take priority is wrong. Perhaps you’ll disagree with that, but I would imagine that the majority of parents would say your position is wrong.
That’s about as objective a viewpoint as you’re going to get. It’s not an “unbalanced custodial” perspective, it’s a proper parenting perspective (at least as I see it).
Finally, don’t mistakes my contention that “spending time with dad is more important” is only looking at things from my perspective. It absolutely IS looking at it from the child’s perspective, too. Forgive me if I can’t understand why you don’t see that.
January 21st, 2010 at 11:02 am
I have to agree with TheTrophyGF a little, no offence, LM. But I totally understand you not wanting to do what PEW thinks is best but S1 is getting the bad end of the deal. At least your PEW is willing to switch weekends with you. Our PEW (divorce is not finalized though and my BF currently only gets his kids from 8am-5pm every saturday) is a real piece of work. First off, if the kids or she has plans on his saturday, she will just inform him that he can’t have his kids and any and all discussions about another day are ended unless it is in PEW’s best interest. Secondly, if we were in this situation we would know whether to believe her or not about this “party” She lies so much and she has the kids lie to my BF we just have to assume that she is lying and there is no “party”. A couple of months ago, she send my BF a text message and said that kids would not be coming Saturday, that D1 had plans with a friend and her family. My BF said that’s fine I’ll just take D2, but got to responce out of her. (That’s what she does, if she doesn’t like the say the conversation is going, then she will just stop communicating) So we went to their house at 8am to pick the girls up but they were not there. We went to the police department to see if they could help us inforce court ordered visitations (they can’t). We stopped by this “friends” house and asked her about her plans with S1 and she said they did not have any plans. So there you go…she LIES to keep the kids from their dad. Even though there is nothing we can do to “make” her comply with visitations, in the furture are we going to believe that one of the girls have a “party” to go to - NO! It’s been a mess..I love my BF…but sometimes I wonder why I put up with this mess…I used to say I’ll be glad when it’s over and the divorce/custody is finalized but from the sounds of all the stories on this website..it doesn’t look like it will ever end :(( It’s hard to make plans because even if it is his weekend (when he gets weekends) all she has to do is deny visitations and there is nothing he can do except file with the court but they do nothing because she lies to them and says she has a good reason for denying visitation and they side with her …ALWAYS! Sorry I got off topic..just had to vent
January 21st, 2010 at 11:09 am
Two points I think are being overlooked here…
#1 - I said it was okay for S1 to go to the party.
#2 - The problem came about because I just wanted to take S2 for the weekend and she didn’t want that.
Feel free to let me know why that’s a “bad deal for S1.” Further, feel free to let me know why missing an occasional party in favor of other activities is a bad deal for S1, too.
Does anyone have any idea how many events the children miss in favor of their parent-child time with mom?
January 21st, 2010 at 11:16 am
I see your point…your plans are more important then a “party” especially given he’s 7. It’s hard since you live so far away. I do like how you said it was okay for S1 to go to the party and just take S2. Didn’t mean to offend just wanted to state my opinion. If we were in the same sitiation (difference we live in the same town) we would have taken S1 to the party ourselves and then problem would have been solved, but I know that wasn’t an option. BTW- I’ve read all your blogs & have enjoyed reading them
January 21st, 2010 at 11:24 am
No offense taken. Certainly there is more than one approach to any given situation I share and the different approaches offered have certainly given me reason to re-evaluate the approach I chose at that time.
TheTrophyGF suggests I try to set my own bias aside when taking a fresh look. I believe I do a good job of that and offer a parenting perspective and not simply a “guy pissed off at the family court system” perspective and really think I’ve done that here both then and now.
January 21st, 2010 at 11:48 am
I had to stop reading about 2/3 of the way down. I am a step mom and have 3 step sons, an x that moved out of state to live with her boyfriend for 2 years before getting pregnant, eloping to Mexico and having a baby at 44. She still comes back to take her 3 children for 2 weeks a month and then gets on a plane with her baby and flies back to her now husband.
When I say we got problems, you have no idea. Not only did she abandon her children when they were in the 1st, 7th and 9th grades to live with her boyfriend (5 years younger) but she left me, a full time working step mom to care for everything. She literally checked herself “out”.
I am only sharing this b/c my situation is unbelievable to 100% of the people I share my story with … yet we all try to keep it about the kids, refrain from personal attacks (we do say mean things, don’t get me wrong) and try to act our age.
My question is … why when these two women (Mom and SM) clearly hate one another, do you keep engaging in conversation? Why not let your husband and his xwife work it out? Just ignore the xwife, refuse to deal with her, let her spin in her own misery and move on with your happy life. Your step children will always belong to her … they will never turn against their mom, no matter how many times she betrays them, manipulates them or lies to them. Trust me on this one. They are her children and for better or worse, she is always Mom.
I wish you both luck …. but to the step mom - I say remove yourself from her toxic ways and focus on your great life!
January 21st, 2010 at 11:54 am
Stepbomb - I’m not sure who you’re directing this to as DW is about as far removed from interaction with PEW as she could possibly be.
As for repeatedly engaging her in mindless back-and-forth, that was my failure for a very long time and keep in mind that this story is from 2005… well before I made the move to relegating contact only to important matters pertaining to the children.
Of course, if this was directed at one of the other responders - just disregard… lol
January 21st, 2010 at 12:08 pm
S1 did miss out on being able to go to a party, but not because of Mister-M. It was PEW that refused to allow S2 to go with dad while S1 went to the party. I have had several incidents where one child was invited to something during PEH’s time. I usually offer him to take her himself, or let me take her. It is HIS time, so his choice. In a few cases, it was a mom-event, so the choice was for me to go, or the child does not go. My PEH doesn’t like dealing with kid events, so he always has me take the child. The child not invited still goes with PEH for normal time. In the rare instance both kids were invited, I offered make-up time.
Mister-M - Where I think you went wrong was to say all future party invites on your time would always be a “no” answer. That is giving PEW the tool to make you the mean parent. “Dad says you can never go to a party on his time.” I don’t think that is what you meant, but that is what it came out as. Although time with dad is important, time with friends is also important (even at 7). Still, since it was your PT, it was your decision and not PEW’s. You should have been given the option to take S1 to the party yourself, give up the time, or make up the time. PEW tries to control the situation as if the children are hers alone, and you are only a babysitter. Our PEW did try the same crap, but we made sure through the court that she was told DH’s time was his to control, period. Once she got that through her head (and it took a while), time changes for special events were not an issue. Once DH just gave up the time for one child to go to an event, but otherwise he arranged to take them himself or changed days/times.
January 21st, 2010 at 12:30 pm
i have to agree with TheTrophyGF.
also. first you say no, then you said it was OK but you were going to take S2. then you change it again saying nevermind s1 can’t go. you both were being confusing.
just switch the weekends and be done with it.
January 21st, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Reader - Actually, 1st I said yes. 2nd, I said yes.
Have you ever only had access to your children for 4-6 days per month? Ever dealt with a psycho-ex whose flexibility was predicated upon switching when it was convenient for them but almost never when it was convenient for you?
I wasn’t at all confusing. S1 could go. I only reverted back to the original schedule when it was clear that plans I had intended for Thanksgiving weekend would be held hostage unless I didn’t come to pick up S2.
Kate - I agree with you about how it came across. My intention was just that - to accept “blame” for his failure to attend any future parties on our scheduled weekends in PEW’s’ region only so that we didn’t have the real-time drama that was taking place during this interchange.
It’s also important to note that, since this particular blowout, such occasions have come up and it has never been a problem. Why? Because over the years and contrary to PEW’s efforts - we have things to do, places to go, people to see, and parties to attend on our scheduled time. They realize that they miss things on both ends of the custodial spectrum and “that’s life” coming from a broken family. And meeting the schedule (with appropriate exceptions) provides a consistency for the children and they learn to accept this is the scheduling system within which we operate.
I do stand by my decision to make sure that the children didn’t get to choose or otherwise dictate deviations from the schedule, especially at ages 4 and 7.
January 21st, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Once again, this discussion highlights the difficulty of working with a high-conflict PE, compared to “normal” co-parenting, post divorce.
Those of us who believe in mitigating the harmful effects of divorce try our very hardest to co-parent cooperatively, flexibly, and with understanding of the childrens’ needs. To us, the solution is obvious: find a reasonable way to support the child’s needs for social interaction, while also supporting the child’s needs for interaction and relationship with both parents.
In other words: swap weekends. Duh.
Then we get to the PEs, the high-conflict, the post-divorce parents who look for ways to continue to fight and fuss, and who seem to be on a mission to destroy their child’s relationship with the other parent. And the biggest challenge is the fact that these PEs are often very passive-aggressive: they do their dirty work “under-the-radar”, where it’s untraceable. Meanwhile, their public “who me?” face exudes the pretense that THEY aren’t the parent with the problem, it’s the OTHER parent. And because many PEs are masters at manipulation, and masters at blame, they often succeed in portraying the low-conflict parent as “harsh”, “mean”, “inflexible”, or just plain “crazy”.
Poor kids.
January 21st, 2010 at 10:26 pm
One thing people seem to assume (and Mr. M. doesn’t say it here, but in other posts) is that he is assuming that PEW would give up Thanksgiving weekend without a fight. Maybe she would, but she has failed to before. “LM, my boys hate to go this long without seeing their mother” I don’t know what she could do to disrupt if anything, but if there is a way, she will find it.
As a rare dad with custody 85% of the time, I would tell son that an event on her time is between him and her. Not my place at all. I would switch, but only if asked. Then again, I think a child should have as much of a relationship as possible with his mother, even if I can’t stand her.
January 21st, 2010 at 10:47 pm
Awesome blog! Looks like my hubby’s ex and your ex could have been twins separated at birth. The level of uncooperative insanity in these women never ceases to amaze me. And the only victums, the kids. Thank goodness for loving, resilient, strong Fathers like you and my husband. Kids certainly need Fathers like you. ~M
January 22nd, 2010 at 12:11 am
TheStepBomb - Um, I don’t talk to PEW, ever, lol. I have no desire to speak to her, and LM makes the decisions for the boys. I make decisions when they are at our house, and that’s it.
January 22nd, 2010 at 3:42 am
Think Mister-M was reasonable, fair and flexible. PEW was being manipulative and I agree that it was very much about her and not the children. Noted all the personal insults and threats to Mister-M too.
Quote”You are delusional…..it’s a little scary. Please save the emails. I’m looking forward to how this will look for you in court too.”
January 22nd, 2010 at 10:13 am
[...] on “Why Co-Parenting Doesn’t Work”, or learn how to win child custody with a custody coach.In Part 2 of the 2005 Christmas and Thanksgiving mess, things started to spiral out of control. In today’s segment, the fallout will see a [...]
January 22nd, 2010 at 10:46 am
DW - I too do not talk to PEW or interact with her. I do ride with DH to drop off kids, but only so PEW won’t come out to “chat”. If I am not in the car, she feels open to talk with DH about stupid crap, so my presence is only to prevent contact. Otherwise, all contact is between DH and PEW directly and I stay out of it. PEW hates this, but I don’t care what she feels.
Mister-M - You are right that kids of 4 & 7 should not have decision making authority. Your offer to take S2 and let S1 go to the party was very reasonable. PEW made a big deal about S2 crying saying he didn’t want to go. He was 4, so too bad. I would have told PEW either both kids come, or S2 comes alone. Period. As you learned, you put way too much effort into trying to get PEW to understand your perspective. She never did and never will.
January 22nd, 2010 at 3:55 pm
Hi Mr. M,
If the true purpose of this website is to share information about parenting, divorce, and dealing with a high conflict ex, then why exactly am I being grouped into this group of extreme thinkers, as in the line, “as usual, you take missing the occasional party to extremes with your contention that he will end up a “social outcast.” ” What do you mean, “as usual?” This was the first time I ever left a response to you, and just because you didn’t like what I said doesn’t mean you should group me in a generalization that seeks to discredit me. (Additionally, if you are implying that I am one of the PEW’s “alternative personalities,” I recommend you check my IP address, which will prove my credentials).
When I first came to this website, I did find it comforting that other people were dealing with a high conflict ex and it helped me understand the mentality of my once-abused boyfriend. In recent times, however, I find that this site doesn’t really serve to help the children of this situation at all. Your ex-wife may be crazy and come from a crazy family, that’s for sure, but will you really be proud to show this website to your children someday and say, “here is model behavior for how to deal with an ugly divorce?” All it really serves to do is discredit anyone who disagrees with you, which doesn’t allow for personal growth, either for yourself, the PEW, your DW, or your children.
And no, I don’t think that a 7 yr old should be allowed to make the same choices as a teenager; again, you assume a generalization in order to discredit my idea. I only gave that example of a circumstance where my boyfriend has to compromise in order to do what is best for his child and although it makes him moody and miss her, it is important to let go of her enough to let her have a healthy normal social life. Being able to attend Chucky Cheese parties IS important to a 7 year old, and helps to provide him with social discussion at school on Monday. When left out repeatedly from group social interaction (especially a child who may feel different to start with and you’ve regularly expressed that he has an issue with his weight) it can have a detrimental effect on their self-esteem. HEALTHY peers (not the gun-toting/porn-watching neighbors) serve an important role in a 7 yr olds life, and interaction within regular age related roles is just as important as interaction with his parents. I am simply encouraging you to see how you have to give a little to get a little.
By the way, I am in possession of the psychology degree that both you and DW lack and I work every day with at-risk kids who have patterns of learned helplessness as a product of divorce. You sound like most of the parents I speak to daily who prefer not to put their own actions under a microscope.
The more I read your website, the more appalled I am that I couldn’t see that you were really just some power-hungry father who reads a lot of books but has no formal or certified experience other than having had a moody ex-wife. I guess that was my own anger over seeing the pain my boyfriend was in. Luckily, I’m fortunate enough to admit I’ve grown beyond this blog of bitterness and can move on.
So I guess you accomplished something, even if it was in a roundabout manner.
Good luck.
January 22nd, 2010 at 4:38 pm
TrophyGF - You might not want to assume too much, I happen to have a psych degree as well. Just an FYI.
January 22nd, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Forgive any confusion. My reference to “as usual” was intended broadly, as the overwhelming majority of detractors who occasional visit and choose to comment typically offer a very extreme outcome for what is typically a very minor issue… like your reference to S1 or S2 missing the occasional birthday party will result in his being a “social outcast” - that is the term you used. Even in your latest response, you persist in applying a very extreme outcome to the occasional party being missed. Further, you persist in totally dismissing any plans that may be arranged while they are scheduled to be with me. Could you be suggesting that plans while on mom’s turf take priority? Do their activities with me and their friends in my neighborhood “not count?”
Your ideas I took merely as a suggestion to “watch out or you may end up doing the same things you dislike…” - which is excellent advice. I simply disagreed with some of your potential outcomes (given the rare parties the boys may miss) and I believed you to be applying principles that are relevant to teenagers to children aged 4 and 7 (at the time).
I assure you, I don’t make accusations that others with a dissenting voice are “the PEW” - because I know when she’s here and when she’s not - that is something the readers do (and since PEW’s discovery of this site, they’ve been 100% incorrect). You don’t have to worry about me doing that to you without proof positive that you are PEW.
I also urge you not to make assumptions about my educational background, DW’s educational background, or what degrees either of us have - because you have again made incorrect assumptions on some counts there as well.
This site ENTIRELY puts my own actions under a microscope and, while at times I may disagree with the opinions of some, it PRIMARILY serves to show just how wrong I’ve handled so many situations along the way. Unsurprisingly, that would mean I disagree with your assessment in that regard, too.
As for your closing paragraph, would it surprise you if I said that this is also typically what people with whom I disagree devolve into doing when their position is challenged?
I am really sorry you took offense at some of the language I used. Unfortunately your psychology degree hasn’t afforded you the ability to recognize that extreme outcomes of missing an occasional party are unlikely and that the children actually do things with friends and family in our neighborhood, too.
January 23rd, 2010 at 11:28 pm
So is “arm-chair psychologist” an “actual” degree?
Right here is where you put your credentials at the top of your webpage: “The Psycho Ex Wife is the true account of a marriage, divorce, and subsequent custody fight between a loving man, his terroristic ex-wife who we suspect suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder (at least from our armchair psychologist diagnosis), and the husband’s new partner.”
If you have a real degree, than I suggest you clear up a few of the vague notions that YOU have put out there. I certainly would say I had a degree if I had one to show credibility.
And if you both have all these degrees, why can’t you find work? Aren’t you in some kind of big financial struggle? I’m seriously confused, since you are always talking about how you had to move far away to find work, but you can be a psychologist in private practice almost anywhere. So WHY exactly aren’t the two of you doing that with your psychology degrees?
January 24th, 2010 at 12:39 am
We’re doing fine with our website, but thank you for the suggestions. As for our credibility, we’re doing just fine with that, too. Well, except with some of those with whom we’ve disagreed on occasion.
January 24th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
TrophyGF - Might want to work on your reading comprehension. *I* have a degree in psychology, not both of us, and I’ve been successfully self employed for 10 years now thank you.
You might want to check with your licensing board, but I’m pretty sure you can’t give a formal diagnosis for someone that isn’t your client, thus my “armchair” diagnosis.